Very strange problem with Ford COP coils

[andrew_mx83]

CurrentTune - Copy.msq

Hi guys im really pulling my hair out over this one.
Engine is a warm Toyota 7mge, I6, freshly built.
36-1 crank trigger, AU Ford Falcon part. missing tooth is 60* BTDC as per EDIS setup (ive had this crank pulley, pickup and bracket running a megajolt previously)
No cam sync, semi-seq fuel and waste COP.
Ms3x was purchased used and tested from a friend who has setup dozens of them.
Ive converted the engine to Ford Falcon (BA, Barra engine) coil on plugs. These are a 2 wire coil. I know earlier Falcon's ran EDIS internally in the ecu, im not sure what setup the BA uses, but they do NOT have a separate ignitor.
Originally i wired the setup with a Toyota 7m-gte multiplex ignitor. Using the toyota multiplex settings i was able to verify spark in the output test mode to every coil.
Injectors worked, and i had a good crank signal, properly synced.

And then the car just wouldn't start. No matter what. I worked on it full time for over a week, with many hours of help from my MS guru to no avail. Just lots of popping through the exhaust, after trying literally every relevant setting in TS. Timing light verified we were firing at 10* BTDC with a trigger offset in TS of 300*.
Even with starting fluid, no luck. It is getting real frustrating now.
In desparation, i wired up a setup of 7m-gte waste spark coils to the 7m ignitor and it fired first go, like a dream. WTF?
Timing was then verified at 10* BTDC and we decided that the Ford coils mustn't like the funny Multiplex ignitor, so i sourced a simple 6 channel ignitor from a Nissan RB25.

Ive since spent another 2 full days trying to get it to start with the Ford coils back in, wired off the RB ignitor and it just wont go again. Once again, all i get is popping through the exhaust (which says to me timing is out). Ive not changed any settings in TS except to swap it back to Waste COP from Waste Spark and Toyota Multiplex to Standard Dwell, so it should still run.
Here is the other strange thing - even with a fully charged battery, it will only crank for a second or 2 before the starter virtually stalls out and voltage drops under 7. It very much feels like the timing, or firing order is miles out and it is predetonating itself almost to a stop. If i unplug the ms3x loom (ie no spark) and crank it turns over at normal speed. Ok, so timing or firing order must be out.
Ive quadruple checked the firing order in my wiring and it is as follows:
Engine firing order 1-5-3-6-2-4
MS SPKA - #1
MS SPKB - #2
MS SPKC - #3
MS SPKD - #6
MS SPKE - #5
MS SPKF - #4
Ive also verified this in the output test mode.
Ok, so 2 & 5 are mixed up, but this should not matter a bean in any form of waste spark setup. (should it?) 2&5 are paired up on the crankshaft.
Otherwise the firing order is correct.

In desparation again, i played with the Trigger offset this morning from 180-300* (even though i know it is correct!!!!) and the situation improved. I wasnt able to get it to start but i was able to get much more violent pops through the exhaust, much faster cranking, less stalling and almost had the sounds of combustion for a second. I ran out of batteries by that stage and had to give up.
The only other thing of note is the bogging down or stalling during cranking isnt 100% consistent. Sometimes it will crank freely for a second before bogging down, other times it just barely turns over at all.


NONE of these problems occur with the Toyota coils, it runs fine.
I have a good spark off the Ford's now i am using the NIssan ignitor, it will jump at least 1/2". The spark was a bit weak with the Toyota ignitor.
i have confirmed the OEM spark plug for this coil is comparable in gap, heat range and resistor type to what i am using in the engine. Im using regular copper plugs however, when Ford spec'd iridium for these coils.



So what the hell can be so special about these coils that they either dont spark properly, or spark at the wrong time? It's almost like they have an internal delay, although i doubt that's possible. They measure 0.6Ohms across the terminals. Ive tried virtually every combination of dwell, spark duration, crank advance (this helps a tiny bit)
the coils are just like this, but "visteon" brand which were purchased from the junkyard however they appear to be nearly new (they arent the OEM ones so were replaced at some point)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6x-VDO-Ford- ... 81d&_uhb=1

[prof315]

Ford COPs ( especially aftermarket replacements) kinda suck. They have by far the highest failure rate of any COP I have seen. That said they work ok when driven with BIP373s