MS begginer with a couple questions

[crny1]

Hello,
I posted on the other MS board and was directed to this one as the best option would be the MS3. Here is what I put on the other board:
I have read for a couple weeks trying to gain knowledge on the MS and tuning for my application but still come up short on a few unanswered questions. I think I know what all would need but figured I would get on here and ask the veterans to see if I am understanding everything correctly.
What I am wanting to do is run the MS in Parallel with the stock ECU so I can retain the factory gauges and such in the car.
The car details are:
01 Cobra SVT - Summertime occasional driver/street car
4.6 DOHC (coil on plug obviously) - (large cams, ported polished intake etc etc) (400hp)
manual trans
Naturally aspirated with NOS (200hp shot) currently, but moving to turbo possibly next year. Looking to try E85 before switching to turbo.
currently has MSD two step on it ( could the MS replace this?)
PLX wide band
J&S safeguard system (http://www.jandssafeguard.com/)

I have PLENTY of experience soldering boards together and have done plenty "KITS" for holiday lighting so I definitely want to assemble myself to help learn. Which kit would be best suited to run parallel with the stock ECU? Would you run a relay board or use the stock relays in the car? The reluctor wheel is a 36 minus 1 I believe. Since I would be running parallel would I need a harness or wouldn't it just hard wire into the stock harness? I have plenty of time to learn the tuning portion of it so thats no big deal. I would just like to get everything ordered correctly in one shot to be done with it. I appreciate any and all input!

Since I was suggest that the MS3 would be the best option I have a couple questions. What is the difference between the ver 3.0 (which is in kit form) and then ver 3.57 which only comes pre assembled? Am I over looking the answer to this question?
MS3 daughterboard - Is this just for someone wanting to upgrade from a 1 or 2 to the 3?
MS330-K kit with MapDaddy4 Upgrade - is this just the MS3 with the 4 bar map in kit form?

Would the ver 3.0 kit with the MS3X expansion card added onto it make it a ver 3.57?

Thanks for the input. Looking forward to getting parts ordered and getting started!

[Ollie8974]

I don't know about running MS in parallel with the stock ECU.
Perhaps someone with more knowledge will comment.

The question regarding the differences between MS 3.0 and 3.57
The MS 3.57 is the pre-assemebled version. The MS 3.0 is the kit version.
The MS 3.57 and the MS3.0 are identical in function.
The MS3X card is an add one extra for both the MS 3.0 and MS 3.57, to provide sequential fuel injection and ignition.

[grom_e30]

i have never installed a ms in parallel either but this may cover some of it...... http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_article ... rallel.htm

[dontz125]

There's a little bit of apples and oranges going on, perhaps leading to some confusion. The V3.0 and V3.57 are the main boards with all the major input, output, and power components. The V3.0 is a through-hole design, and can be purchased as a kit or fully-assembled. The V3.57 uses surface-mount components, and is only available fully-assembled.

The MS2 or MS3 daughter card is the actual processor, and plugs into the processor socket on the main board. The MS2 card superceded the original MS1 chip some time ago, and can support up to 6 ignition and 4 injector channels, as well as some other I/O functions. In order to achieve the full abilities of the MS2/Extra code, a certain amount of DIY modification to both the main board and daughter card is necessary. There are a few designs out there for expansion or driver cards to reduce the amount of DIY involved.

The MS3 card is physically larger, far more capable, and more expensive. The fully assembled MS3X expansion card provides 8 logic level ignition channels, 8 injector channels, and a variety of other I/O abilities - not the least of which is a second big connector! With a certain amount of DIY, the MS3 can support 12 each ignition and injector channels.

[hardline]

DIY Autotune is working on decoding the CANBUS protocol to run the factory gauges with the MS3Pro PNP kit they are developing. They are looking for a beta test car of that generation. If you are interested, they usually provide the MS3 as compensation for your time and effort.

[crny1]

Ok. So if i was going to start off this project I would be looking at getting the MS3 v3.0 so I can save a few bucks and basically just have the fun of building it myself. I would also need the MSX expansion board, the connector at whatever length i need and a software cable. Correct?
I would FOR SURE be up for beta testing for the PNP version. How does one go about seeing about making this happen? Not looking for a free ride with it but saving money, learning and helping out has some great benefits!!! Point me in the right direction please.

[Matt Cramer]

DIY Autotune is working on decoding the CANBUS protocol to run the factory gauges with the MS3Pro PNP kit they are developing. They are looking for a beta test car of that generation. If you are interested, they usually provide the MS3 as compensation for your time and effort.

Sorry, but we already have a test car, a 2001 convertible. We had been looking to line up a '96-'98 Mustang for other MSPNP testing.

For the solder-it-yourself version, an MS3 V3.0 kit and MS3X board would be the way to go. You'd also need to use a QuadSpark if running coil packs, or two QuadSparks for coil on plug.

[mr_minnis]

tuning cable is just a straight through serial cable.
software is tuner studio. the free version you can download now and poke around http://tunerstudio.com/index.php/downloads you can get a registered version with more features. I would recommend it.

the 3.0 and 3.57 boards are different boards. Like others said the 3.57 board is surface mount and can only be purchased assembled (a machine has to put them together). The 3.0 board is one you can build yourself, however it is available ready to go.

I'd look here http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/mega ... a435746405. I purchased one ready to go because it wasn't that much saving

[ashford]

i have run mod motors on ms for you i would suggest
1. ms3 v3 kit, msx,
2. wideband

3. ignition the way you suggested is tricky. j&s is not necessary ms3 has an add on moudule with the same features(more actually)
a. stock coils with 2 quadsparks(coil drivers) i had spark blowout at 8lbs boost and .027 plug gap adding dwell didnt fix it i had to close the gap to .020
b. ls coils or other smart coil

4. keep stock computer for gauges, leave clt in the engine add one for ms, feed the stock computer a signal for rpm(i did a loopback from the vr inverted out)
i used the vss off the trans into the ms(wrong signal for the factory pcm) then converted it with the ms to feed the pcm. im not sure on the 01 but the 99 had conventional oil pressure and fuel level.

[crny1]

Always a day late! Lol. I also have a 97 cobra!

Anyway as for the coil drivers, what drivers are we referring to specifically? Dont really want to switch to LS coils at the moment but not sure I under stand what drivers would be needed for COP.
wideband is no problem. I currently have a PLX but going to put it on the 97 and get a better one for this 01.
When you say J&S is not necessary what do you mean? And whcih add on module are you referring too?

[ashford]

Always a day late! Lol. I also have a 97 cobra!

Anyway as for the coil drivers, what drivers are we referring to specifically? Dont really want to switch to LS coils at the moment but not sure I under stand what drivers would be needed for COP.
wideband is no problem. I currently have a PLX but going to put it on the 97 and get a better one for this 01.
When you say J&S is not necessary what do you mean? And whcih add on module are you referring too?

the quad spark is this http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/quad ... p-481.html
the ms3x is a logic level output so it needs drivers for inductive coils.

the j&s is not needed becaust the ms3 has the same capability with an add on.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/ms3- ... p-522.html
here http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/knock_module.html
and here http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/ignition ... l#knockint

[ashford]

DIY Autotune is working on decoding the CANBUS protocol to run the factory gauges with the MS3Pro PNP kit they are developing. They are looking for a beta test car of that generation. If you are interested, they usually provide the MS3 as compensation for your time and effort.

Sorry, but we already have a test car, a 2001 convertible. We had been looking to line up a '96-'98 Mustang for other MSPNP testing.

For the solder-it-yourself version, an MS3 V3.0 kit and MS3X board would be the way to go. You'd also need to use a QuadSpark if running coil packs, or two QuadSparks for coil on plug.

the way i understand driving the gauges is that it runs on 1850pwm ford databus(older than 2005) and is not compatable with can in any sort unless there is another microcontroller with canbus>serial select what is needed then serial>1850pwm.

[crny1]

I am beginning to wonder if a parallel system like I need may be more than I bargain for........ Maybe with some more reading I may convince myself to pull the trigger.