BMW S62B50

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jsmcortina
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by jsmcortina »

Yes.
However, if you removed the built-in diodes from inside the VANOS, you could use low-side drivers. I believe that's what some other users have done and some other aftermarket ECUs suggest.

James
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ragepower
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by ragepower »

I didn't removed the build in diodes. That image was from the Internet. I prefer not to remove them since next I would need to disassemble the engine harness to remove the common wire from ground to connect to 12v. And I'm using the oem harness. It would be a not easy task. I prefer to try the high-side drivers before that option.
ragepower
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by ragepower »

The engine finally started!!!! :yeah!:

I have cam fault fag!

I attach the MSQ file, a datalog and the composite logger.

All of them is with the engine running, without the AFR sensor.

The cam missing tooth is +/- 3/4 turns after Compression TDC.

James or AbatelliCristian, can you help me?
AbatelliCristian
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by AbatelliCristian »

I see your msq, but vvt is disabled... and pool level tooth = 0
ragepower
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by ragepower »

Vvt is disable I only have one cam sensor wired. I just started the engine to see if was all working and was late at night . I need to finish some work on harness and buy the tip125 before start with vvt.

Until then I want so solve same problem , like This cam fault.

I know that the phase check tooth is 0 because I didn't had time to analyze.

To determine the tooth I need to analyze the composite logger. When with the last ms project I didn't needed to use it. How is the best way to analyze it? With Excel, megalogviewer,....?
AbatelliCristian
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by AbatelliCristian »

I think your tooth is 2 and select low phase...
jsmcortina
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by jsmcortina »

I typically use MegaLogViewer to review any of the logs. When taking a deeper look and analysing new patterns I might then use LibreOffice Calc.

I don't think that tooth#2 is the best, I'd suggest tooth#11 or so as I suggested previously for S54.

EDIT: If you select "log crank and cam" and then take a composite log while cranking you'll see the full detail of both patterns.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
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AbatelliCristian
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by AbatelliCristian »

mmm James, in s54 I have tested with intake sensor (6 tooth) and is no correct if you remember. Ragepower have make composite log with exhaust (8-1).
On his log I see cam tooth on 4 crank tooth.
Attach photo.
If I'm wrong, I have a bit of confusion about the function on phase tooth :?
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by jsmcortina »

For polling you need to look at the voltage level of the teeth - see that annotated engine log I posted before. That composite log (shown here) is only showing tooth edges, the edges are not used in "poll level" - only the voltage LEVEL. The code needs to poll the wheel during the missing region. So on one crank revolution it is always low and on the next it is always high.

Previously I mentioned the wrong wheel. You are correct that the 8-1 wheel absolutely must be used.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
AbatelliCristian
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by AbatelliCristian »

Thanks, now is clear... I undestand. the composite log have confused me. The ideal is "log crank and cam"
thanks for the clarification
ragepower
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by ragepower »

I forgot to tell you about the cam sensor. It is connected to exhaust cam and is a 8-1.

I put high on phase level because, I did the procedure on ms manual. I put the engine on compression tdc, and rotate the engine forward until the missing tooth, it was like 3/4 turn after compression tdc. Checked the voltage and was 0.7v so is according to manual high. Although I thought if this setting is wrong and Ms can get full sync, the engine won't start and I just need to change this setting.

Am I thinking wrong?

Tonight I will do that you told, James.

Log crank and cam, is on ignition settings, trigger wheel (or something like that), am I right?
ragepower
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by ragepower »

James I saw your mail.

Tonight I was to do "log crank and cam", but I found a problem. I start the engine to try the check tooth, and when I stopped (turn off the key), I notice that TS didn't go off. Start again the engine, the engine is working great, stop again, and TS don't go off, MS voltage on TS 7V. Turn on the key, MS voltage go to 12V, turn off 7V.

Disconnected MS3X plug, the same. Disconnected the MS main plug and start to measure some voltage. On 5V pin, I have 12Volt. I don't know why, but I check the voltage on BIP373 aluminium box, and I have 12V. I thought "maybe a problem with mica isolator", check resistance between BIP flange and the box, 1ohm. Ok I need to re-install all BIP.

What I done before start the engine:

- connect knock sensors to MS
- rewire idle valve from Idle and Fidle pin, to injbank1, injbank2
- remove some cable from the oem harness to clean it up.

So, yesterday I gone one step forward, today, one step backwards.

1º question: Is the heat grease conductive?

2º question: This could be related with the problem on 5V pin (Vref) ? I have some doubts about if this BIP isolation problem is related with 5V pin problem? Do you have something where I can start, to solve this problem on 5V pin?
ragepower
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by ragepower »

Some problems solved, other appears.

Vanos hardware done.

Just loaded the Alpha 9 firmware, with some problems but I managed to the it started. But now it is running as not smooth as before, using 1.3.3 firmware.

I reloaded the 1.3.3 firmware and is the same. Reload again the alpha 9 to start working with vanos valves.

And the engine don't start as easly as before. Before it doesn't need throttle. Now I need to throttle for 5%.

It is shooting flames of right cylinder bank at idle (it was yet the catayst units, they will be removed next week). The left is normal.

I had removed the spark plug to see them and the left side were more dark and the pole was more white.

On this log, you can see after being at 1200 rpm with throttle, it goes to idle and start to shoot flames:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/reopv9qr1xkp1 ... 0.msl?dl=0
Last edited by ragepower on Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
ragepower
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by ragepower »

Another test I done was on injector disabling test, when I disable the right side, the AFR goes from 13:1 to 14.9:1. On the left side, it goes from 13:1 to 19.9:1.

My possibilities:

- a loose wire on igniton wiring. what is the max resistance from pin 3 of BIP373 to the chassis ground?
- Something with the fuel system/injector, due to these disabling test.
AbatelliCristian
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by AbatelliCristian »

The best thing is to use the TESTMODE.
Try all the injectors and all coils.
ragepower
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by ragepower »

With wasted COP it seams to work better. But it isn't smooth as before.

Checked the resistance bewteen pin3 of BIP373 and chassis ground and it is good (0.1 ohm).

Another thing that happen before was 1 fuse of one of wideband module (14point7 SLC OEM Evk) blowup, I changed it, did free-air calibration (it need more time then usual to get a good reading), and is on this bank that is shooting flames.

Now I will test coils.

Any more suggestions?
ragepower
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by ragepower »

Coil test done. I removed all coils and spark plugs. First thing I notice was all spark plugs of right side were wet.

I fire all coils in sequence at the same time and we didn't notice any diference between spark plugs.

I have switched injector from one side to the another and the prolem remains.

Disconnect the vanos valves, since the VVT module is not activated yet and MS could be send random stuff and change the angle.

I measured the exshaut temperatures after last log. https://www.dropbox.com/s/q7fpijzdn6ow6 ... 6.msl?dl=0

-right side: end of header, 100ºC, before catalyst, 170ºC, after catalyst 180ºC
-left side: end of header, 110ºC, before catalyst, 150ºC, after catalyst 160ºC

It is possible the catalysts are the reason of this problem?

On this log, you can see weird changes on AFR 1 (right) and AFR 2 (left), Are they normal?
AbatelliCristian
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by AbatelliCristian »

Are you sure the map is ok? for me there is a problem with map sensor.

REMEMBER: If you disable VVT and in previuos test you have moved the solenoid, VVT NO RETURN AT ZERO POSITION! It's important! VVT remains in the last position. For security open manually the discharge oil solenoid at all VVT.
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Re: BMW S62B50

Post by jsmcortina »

ragepower,
two suggestions
1. discharge the VANOS solenoids (good catch! I hadn't thought of that)
2. try the previous firmware again

It is important to understand what is causing the change in behaviour and take things one step at a time.

Get the engine back to the smooth running that you had on 1.3.3, then move forwards again.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
ragepower
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Location: Leiria - Portugal

Re: BMW S62B50

Post by ragepower »

AbatelliCristian wrote:Are you sure the map is ok? for me there is a problem with map sensor.
I don't have the map connect, but Im using Alpha-N and Im not using multiplymap and Accel-enrichement is 100% of tps. Alpha-N need the map???
AbatelliCristian wrote:REMEMBER: If you disable VVT and in previuos test you have moved the solenoid, VVT NO RETURN AT ZERO POSITION! It's important! VVT remains in the last position. For security open manually the discharge oil solenoid at all VVT.
I didnt use VVT with MS. My plan was now start to test them but these blue flames start to appear and I want to solve them first. Next time I will try to discharge the oil at all VVT. Maybe random stuff does to one of VVT solenoid and maybe the cam angles are diferrent between banks.
jsmcortina wrote:It is important to understand what is causing the change in behaviour and take things one step at a time.

Get the engine back to the smooth running that you had on 1.3.3, then move forwards again.
I already done that, but I will do again if nessecary to double check.

The only thing I did before this happens was load alpha 9 and connect the VANOS pressure accumolator solenoid. After I already load 1.3.3, load msq of last week, and it was the same. I don't think is accumolator solenoid, the only function is to store pressure when the engine is stop, and discharge pressure until vanos pump built the necessary pressure.

I will discharge the oil first. To do that I will use the VVT of alpha 9 firmware. How I turn on the VVT feature without MS start to sendind signal to VVT solenoids? If I set both VVT maps (intake and exhaust) to 0, will do this?
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