MS3 w/ MS3X found Timing Still wont start!!!!

[toonz]

Hi everyone,

I'M at a loss.... :'(

So this is my setup.... I have reached a boiling point in this build of mine... need all the help i can get, so thanks in advance to all the replies.
I'm running MS3 with MS3X on a Subaru EJ20K engine.... GM air and coolant temp sensors, 36-1 Trigger wheel for crank (purchased from DIYAuto) with the HALL Sensor, also using 4 LS1 coils wired individually to each cylinder but set up for "Wasted COP" .... i started with stock everything and using 6/7 Subaru trigger but ended up with what i have now.... i figured that i'd simplify by going with 36-1 trigger.... then using GM air/cool temp. sensors... then LS1 coils... then MS3X.... and the engine still wont start.... IM DYING to hear this engine run on MS3 completely alone and i've spent over 3 months researching on the net and on here to see or find out what i"m doing wrong.... Here's my datalog.... what ever you guys need for info, i'll get it for you! Thanks again...

and just for your information, My Hall sensor is pretty much at 3 o'clock and the gapped tooth is at 6 o'clock (my Hall is dead-on 9th tooth) [engine turns clockwise] when my timting is at TDC.... did my timing light and only got steady timing mark at 170* BTDC with 0* cranking advance... found my timing on 2 stroke settings, fully Sequential, fuel pump off, etc etc etc...

[toonz]

im still trying to upload the Datalog.... it's too big though... 1.85MiB

[toonz]

its a CSV File.... but too big to upload so i compressed it....

[toonz]

a few pics to help you guys see what i got...

[grom_e30]

so does you commanded ignition timing match eg if you set it to 10btdc does the spark fire on 10btdc?

[toonz]

so does you commanded ignition timing match eg if you set it to 10btdc does the spark fire on 10btdc?

well im not too sure if you mean that exact degree (10*) but i tried it at the factory setting of 80* and i thought i had a bad coil or wires or plugs... but everything is new so it ruled that out... and i have an advanced timing light that i can change the advance while cranking... thats the only way i found my timing to be spot on at 170*... 80* i had no spark (maybe 1 or 2 after a long crank) 90* was the same until i got to around 130* when i started to see the light strobe regularly... it was off of course but at least i saw progress... but even with the timing marks on the stock crank pulley lining up perfectly, it wont fire up at all... once in a while i get a sputter of almost close to start but seems like timing is way off and jerks to dead stop like it pre detonates way too early...

my firing order is right a-1 b-3 c-2 d-4 (1-3-2-4) and tripple checked the wiring physically (both injectors and ignition spark) and with the TunerStudio test mode... everything checks out right... and for subarus the firing order is 1-3-2-4...

[grom_e30]

advancing timing lights don't always play nice with wasted spark, best off using a timing mark you have a reference for, so if you have a tdc mark set the fixed timing to 0 crank engine over with the fuel pump not connected, if the timing matches then good.

see here http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/Megasqui ... Up-1.3.pdf section 2.18

[toonz]

advancing timing lights don't always play nice with wasted spark, best off using a timing mark you have a reference for, so if you have a tdc mark set the fixed timing to 0 crank engine over with the fuel pump not connected, if the timing matches then good.

see here http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/Megasqui ... Up-1.3.pdf section 2.18

check with the timing light with TDC marked and set to 0* on my settings?

[grom_e30]

set your timing light to 0, then set the fixed timing on the ecu to 0, so the spark fires at tdc if the spark happens at tdc and the timing marks align then you have the correct tooth1 angle. this will confirm the spark is firing when the ecu is telling it to fire.

[toonz]

set your timing light to 0, then set the fixed timing on the ecu to 0, so the spark fires at tdc if the spark happens at tdc and the timing marks align then you have the correct tooth1 angle. this will confirm the spark is firing when the ecu is telling it to fire.

right on... ill give that a try tonight...and lets say it does, would i leave the settings as is and try starting the car next?

[toonz]

set your timing light to 0, then set the fixed timing on the ecu to 0, so the spark fires at tdc if the spark happens at tdc and the timing marks align then you have the correct tooth1 angle. this will confirm the spark is firing when the ecu is telling it to fire.

right on... ill give that a try tonight...and lets say it does, would i leave the settings as is and try starting the car next?

never mind what i wrote.... i just had stupid moment.... there...

[grom_e30]

if the timing is happening at the correct time that's a good thing after you have finished the test, make sure to turn fixed timing to 'use table'. can you also get some regular datalogs of the start attempt.

[toonz]

if the timing is happening at the correct time that's a good thing after you have finished the test, make sure to turn fixed timing to 'use table'. can you also get some regular datalogs of the start attempt.

ok... thanks a million for your help bro... its my first MS install and its a big learning curve... thanks again

[toonz]

if the timing is happening at the correct time that's a good thing after you have finished the test, make sure to turn fixed timing to 'use table'. can you also get some regular datalogs of the start attempt.

Quick stupid question. ... my spark is wired a1 b3 c2 d4... my injectors should be wired the same too right injc. A1 b3 c2 d4?

[Ollie8974]

if the timing is happening at the correct time that's a good thing after you have finished the test, make sure to turn fixed timing to 'use table'. can you also get some regular datalogs of the start attempt.

Quick stupid question. ... my spark is wired a1 b3 c2 d4... my injectors should be wired the same too right injc. A1 b3 c2 d4?

Yes, The same as the timing sequence.

[toonz]

if the timing is happening at the correct time that's a good thing after you have finished the test, make sure to turn fixed timing to 'use table'. can you also get some regular datalogs of the start attempt.

Quick stupid question. ... my spark is wired a1 b3 c2 d4... my injectors should be wired the same too right injc. A1 b3 c2 d4?

Yes, The same as the timing sequence.

So on my side that's what I have done. ... now if my timing is at 0° on my settings on tuner studio and engine at TDC and I have spark at my TDC mark what would be my settings to actually try to start the car with fuel?

[grom_e30]

you are confirming the spark is happening when its meant to be happening it has to be correct. if the spark is happening at the correct time and the coils and injectors ect are wired up correctly then it should run. do all the sensor readings make sense, without engine running. eg clt and mat reading aprox ambient temp on an thenine that has not run, the map should be about 100kpa if your at sea level and the tps reads 0-100% with the throttle being opened.

[toonz]

you are confirming the spark is happening when its meant to be happening it has to be correct. if the spark is happening at the correct time and the coils and injectors ect are wired up correctly then it should run. do all the sensor readings make sense, without engine running. eg clt and mat reading aprox ambient temp on an thenine that has not run, the map should be about 100kpa if your at sea level and the tps reads 0-100% with the throttle being opened.

what im trying to say is, my 36-1 wheel, my Hall sensor (when engine is at TDC) is on the 9th tooth after missing tooth gap... so basicly im 80* from the 1st tooth... because i did this trigger im confused at what degree my settings should be at...

[toonz]

you are confirming the spark is happening when its meant to be happening it has to be correct. if the spark is happening at the correct time and the coils and injectors ect are wired up correctly then it should run. do all the sensor readings make sense, without engine running. eg clt and mat reading aprox ambient temp on an thenine that has not run, the map should be about 100kpa if your at sea level and the tps reads 0-100% with the throttle being opened.

And yes, all my sensor readings are good. ...

[toonz]

And one thing I know for sure is that my problem is in the timing....