Confused and need some help please?

[Matt Cramer]

Correct, use S5.

[dragbug]

5. Is it possible to run the crank trigger and the cam sensor for timing while maintaining a carbureted engine? What would I change on the MS3 and would I need the MS3x for this?

Any help would be appreciated!

Yes, just don't connect the fuel outputs.

I have finally gotten a few steps further along now and hoping to get some clarification.

I have the MS3 setup to trigger from the crank wheel. I want the MS to control timing so I am using the single coil for ignition and have already modded the MS3 to fire the coil. I am keeping the electronic Ready -To-Run distro for now since I only have the single coil. I understand that I do not need any of the electronics attached to the distro except for the coil wire at the top. Since I intend to use the distro, do I need to phase it? If so, what procedures do I follow? Or do I just set up the crank wheel as its supposed to be set and align the distro rotor to cylinder post one and be done?

[dragbug]

Anyone know the answer to my above question?

[billr]

"align the distro rotor to cylinder post one and be done?"

If you are using a crank wheel and single coil (through the dizzy), then yeah, that is all you need to do. You need to be sure the rotor is pointing correctly throughout the advance range, but if you leave centrifugal advance mechanism in place it will probably take care of that issue. Any vacuum advance mechanism will have no effect, just leave it there.

[dragbug]

"align the distro rotor to cylinder post one and be done?"

If you are using a crank wheel and single coil (through the dizzy), then yeah, that is all you need to do. You need to be sure the rotor is pointing correctly throughout the advance range, but if you leave centrifugal advance mechanism in place it will probably take care of that issue. Any vacuum advance mechanism will have no effect, just leave it there.

Thanks for replying! I assume I would align the distro to post #1 when the engine is at TDC? I forgot to specify that. I thought if I was letting MS control timing, both the mechanical and vacuum advance had to be locked out? Unless I am reading your response wrong, your saying I don't have to lock them out?

[jsmcortina]

See section 6.2.2 in the MS3 hardware manual: http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/MS3 ... 3-105.html

James

[dragbug]

See section 6.2.2 in the MS3 hardware manual: http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/MS3 ... 3-105.html

James

Hmm, I guess I misread that section or skipped it entirely. Thanks James. That section didn't specifically mention locking the mechanical and vacuum advance, which I thought was required when letting MS control timing, but Billr made it sound as though it wasn't needed, unless I totally misunderstood him.

[jsmcortina]

Locking the distributor is only required if your tach input comes from the distributor.

When using a crank trigger (highly recommended) and using the distributor for the high-tension only, you can unhook the vac canister and leave the mechanical advance operational.
(I need to add these words to the manual.)

James

[dragbug]

Yep, using a crank trigger and only using the distro to distribute the spark from the coil. I plan to go COP (already have them just no place to mount them yet) once I get a cam sensor. Ok so I will unhook the vacuum and leave the mechanical advance. That makes things easier. Again, thanks James and Billr!

[billr]

Do you have the 36-1 crank wheel mentioned at the beginning of this thread? If so, go ahead with the COP even without the cam sensor; set it up as "wasted-COP). That will let you get all the dizzy-less ignition stuff working with no concern about the cam signal; no extra work created except for a menu pick in TS.

[dragbug]

Do you have the 36-1 crank wheel mentioned at the beginning of this thread? If so, go ahead with the COP even without the cam sensor; set it up as "wasted-COP). That will let you get all the dizzy-less ignition stuff working with no concern about the cam signal; no extra work created except for a menu pick in TS.

Yep and finally have a bracket made for the sensor so I will be getting this on within the coming weeks. I agree COP might be easier except for the wiring I would have to do and don't I need to change something on the MS3 since it's set up for single coil right now? Wouldn't I still need the MS3x to go wasted COP? I figured I would hold off on the COP until I actually install the TBI (running carbed currently). And honestly, the cam sensor is a drop in and not that expensive. I would probably do that at the same time.

[dontz125]

Wouldn't I still need the MS3x to go wasted COP?

No, you could fab up a small logic ignition driver card and connect it to the MS3.

[dragbug]

Wouldn't I still need the MS3x to go wasted COP?

No, you could fab up a small logic ignition driver card and connect it to the MS3.

I know for some of you guys, that's is so easy but I kept getting trigger as in tach confused with triggering as in ignition. I am just proud of myself for even building the board versus just buying one already built. Maybe in the future if I get to where I can build one of these with my eyes closed, I can start building all sorts of circuits or ignition driver boards. Honestly, I need/want some spare connection for oil pressure and I still have not figured out how to do that. But that's for another time. Right now I want to do what I can without any major modding to the MS3.

[dragbug]

Ok, this might be a dumb question but, when I have MS controlling timing with a single coil, do I disconnect the power wire that used to run to the coil and only connect the 2 wires (12V from fuel pump relay and IGN from MS) coming from MS?

[dontz125]

Ok, this might be a dumb question but, when I have MS controlling timing with a single coil, do I disconnect the power wire that used to run to the coil and only connect the 2 wires (12V from fuel pump relay and IGN from MS) coming from MS?

Yes! Leaving the coil powered independently of the MS can easily result in the 'bang on key-on' that the MS line is (in)famous for. Until the MS is fully powered-up and ready to control the various outputs, those outputs are uncontrolled. They might be on, they might be off.

That's not a dumb question, by the way - that's asking something that has you concerned. That's a SMART question.

[dragbug]

Leaving the coil powered independently of the MS can easily result in the 'bang on key-on' that the MS line is (in)famous for.

Thank you! What is the bang on key-on? The switched 12v that I am using for MS is connected to the "I" post of the starter solenoid (Ford). That post gets it's power when connected to the coil some how. So when I wired the coil up for the MS to control, I disconnected the original coil wire. As you may guess, the MS didn't come on. So I connected the original wire back on and got power back to the MS. I didn't notice anything unusual except that timing in TS changed if I changed the fixed advance to a fixed timing but when using a timing light, it didn't look like anything physically changed. I played around with tooth#1angle and fixed timing but nothing seemed to actually change except in TS. Plus when I went to turn off the car, it kept running lol. So...I need to use a different switched 12v.

As to the timing not changing, could that be because of how I had it connected or could that indicate something else wrong with my configuration?

And I said dumb question because a few of my questions could have ben answered by reading the manual a little better, as James has pointed out a few times.

[dragbug]

Well, not that anyone was waiting with bated breath or anything but, the ECU is now officially controlling timing successfully. The only issue I had initially was having the ECU switched power connected through the starter solenoid. Once I got that resolved, I connected the ECU to the coil and made sure the distributor was pointing to post one when at 25* BTDC. She started right up. The final tooth#1 angle was 23.5. Guess that's acceptable right? Anyone know where I can get an ignition table for a stock Ford 5.0? My timing I think is to much for idle and not sure of my self enough to start making changes to the table.

@dontz125

Still wondering what the bang on key-on is you were talking about.