Surging during warmup...

[a_housos]

Update...
I am almost done rebuilding everything that I could think of that wasn't insanely expensive.

1. Had new trigger wheel cut (went from .093" thick to .187" thick).
2. Replaced hall affect sensor with a new one from DIY for crank.
3. Replaced hall affect cam sensor with single pulse, to a new hall affect cam sensor, polling style.
4. Replaced 12 volt Optima battery with 16 volt Lithium Ion battery.
5. Replaced 3G 130 amp alternator with Powermaster delco style 1 wire alternator (able to change the voltage to the required 17.4 volts), 160 amp.

I am still thinking of changing the injectors and coils, but the price scares me. Here is what I am considering...
1. Swap 160 lb RC injectors with 160lb Holley injectors (remember that this is an E85 car with about 900fwhp and a dry nitrous system).
2. Swap stock LS truck coils for a new set of generic LS2 coils (more compact and brand new instead of used, and they might not have the dwell issue that is associated with the truck coils).

Is there anything else you guys can think of?

[Silveradotwins]

any luck yet with this issue? very interesting thread..

[a_housos]

Not yet. Since I went from the Ford 3G alternator to a Denso style (required to get me the 17.4 volts needed to charge the 16 volt battery), I've been struggling with new brackets and alignment of the belt. I only run an crank evac pump and an alternator off the belt, so I have to avoid the electric water pump. It's a Frankenstein system of my own creation. But it worked great with the carb. Oh and I've still got to terminate the new cable for the alternator and run it under the carpet. Grunt work that I hate doing. Anyhow, I just put a final coat of paint on the brackets tonight. Oh and I'm still waiting for my boy to plasma cut me a new battery box.

The crank trigger is in place, but I am struggling with the cam sensor. As I said I changed from the single tooth to the polling and I am trying to figure out if I really need to replace the gear on it with the bronze one or not.

All that aside, I've been cruising the internet trying to figure out if my injectors and coils are going to end up being the problem in the end. They have both been identified as possibly problematic in what I've researched. But everyone hates a part for one reason or another. So I want to try what I have first.

Yep, I am getting there and I will certainly update everyone with the results!

[a_housos]

The belts are all in alignment now within tolerance, and the brackets are sturdy and improved over my previous version. I installed the bronze gear on the cam sensor last night. I will be researching how to align the cam sensor now that I have switched from a single tooth to polling and install it this evening.

Still to do:
Terminate and run the single 4 gauge wire for the alternator back to the remote kill switch.
Still need to have the battery box (plasma, water jet or laser) cut.

Making progress.

[a_housos]

Re-installed the cam sensor last night. And ordered the hardware for hooking up the alternator and battery.

Still waiting on the battery box.

[a_housos]

Just got the battery box pieces today. I'll tig them up over the weekend.

I bit the bullet, sold the truck coils and ordered some new LS2 coils. I'll have to figure out a mount for those and to weld some brackets on the valve covers. Shouldn't take too long.

I got the polling cam sensor in place.

I'm making progress, but it's slow. I'll keep you all updated once these changes are made.

[a_housos]

Does anyone have any suggestions or starting point for dwell time for the Accel 140043-8 ls2 coils? Both starting and running?

[a_housos]

Mounting the coils tonight. I had some brackets water jet cut and I bent them up. Mounting them to the valve covers now and moving the plugs to line up. Almost ready to start it again.

Anyone have any input on the dwell for LS2 coils or their Accel counterparts? I asked Accel and they didn't have a clue. These are not the truck coils, so I'm hoping that I don't have to deal with the overdwell issue.

[a_housos]

Coils are mounted, and I had to work on the plug wire lengths. Still have to put in the new plugs, the resistor for converting the 16 volt to 12 volt, and now I felt the need to get a peak and hold box for the injectors. I also decided to change the temperature sensor based on what one of my buddies experienced with his injected car. Cheap insurance I figured. Almost there. Hang with me guys. I'm gonna get this thing working if it kills me!

[a_housos]

Ugh...pulled the injectors out of the manifold last night and 4 of the 8 caps came off and fell into the ports. Now I have to pull the manifold to see if they stopped at the valves or dropped into the cylinders. It's always something.

If I have to pull the motor to pull the heads, I am going to scream!

[a_housos]

Pulled the manifold and retrieved them all. All it good, short of the cost of a new intake gasket and the time it takes to R & R.

[a_housos]

Changing the injectors now as well. So just to clarify...

1. change from 12 volt to 16 volt battery
2. change from 12 volt to 16 volt alternator
3. new 'thicker' trigger wheel
4. new 'polling' cam sensor
5. replaced round truck coils with Accel LS2 square coils
6. added peak and hold box for injectors
7. replaced blue top injectors with modern low z 160 lb injectors

When all else fails...throw money at it and see if that fixes it!

[a_housos]

Injectors are in. The peak and hold box is in place. All that is really left is that I am awaiting new plug wires. Should be here in a couple days. Crossing my fingers that some of this might actually work!

[a_housos]

Well over $1000 later and another 8 hours of working on it just today and I am no further along than I was when I started all this. First some things that really upset me to find. First I am still convinced that this is not a voltage issue, but some sort of sync issue. Here was what I tried today. I started the day by trying to start it and it didn't even sputter. I was convinced that it was a sync issue, so I swapped out the screw in Hall Effect sensor with a second one that I had purchased from DIY for a wheel speed sensor. Trying to start it I noticed that now we were getting no rpm signal at all. I decided to check the wiring and found that in the white factory installed it had a pin that was not in place completely. That pin corresponded with the crank signal. I was excited thinking that I finally found the issue. Mind you this was not my wiring, but the white connector on the factory supplied harness. Anyhow I took the connector apart and managed to get the pin to snap in place. It tested good with my ohm meter all the way to my sensor. I tried starting it again and it was still zero rpm the whole time I was cranking it. I tested the hall effect sensor and got no response from it. Mind you, this was a brand new sensor that I've never used. So I went back and tested the original sensor thinking that it couldn't be worse. It seemed to work if it was close enough to the trigger wheel. I put it back in and it sputtered now. Finally after about an hour of messing with wasted COP and COP and setting timing it started. Well it is doing the same exact thing that it was doing before albeit intermittantly. Idle is really low and it dies seconds after it starts. It won't even run if I try to give it throttle. It backfires and dies. I've gotten absolutely nowhere and have made zero progress. To say I am dissapointed is an understatement. I'm not a hack mechanic and I am not a computer clutz, I should be able to do this and it shouldn't be this difficult. There is either something seriously wrong with the MS3-Pro I have or there is something that I am overlooking in the software or hardware. Right now I am pretty convinced that the MS3-Pro is the issue. I've attached what little logs I could get off this thing. Let me know your thoughts.

2015-03-28_19.21.32.msl

[a_housos]

More data logs.

[Matt Cramer]

It is missing a few teeth on the crank wheel. What's the sensor gap?

[a_housos]

I've tried every gap from 1.5mm to .5mm with the same results but it is currently at 1mm in that composite logger data. I've also tried two different screw in Hall Effect sensors that I purchased through DIY. I still have a third one (I had originally bought two extras for front and rear wheel speed and haven't gotten the car to move yet...so they weren't installed) that I haven't tried yet. I'm wondering if I would be better off with the non-screw in type, or something from a stock vehicle? I noticed in the documentation that the non-screw in type can work with up to a 5mm gap where the screw in ones are limited to 1.5mm. The wires are shielded and grounded. The wheel is .187 thick and a magnet will stick to it. The teeth on the wheel are 6.35mm (.250") x 6.35mm (.250").

[a_housos]

Here is a pic of the assembly as it is currently in the car right now...

[Matt Cramer]

The tabbed sensor can often run a wider gap and is a bit more reliable. The threaded version, I generally recommend running it as close to the wheel as you can get without scraping. It needs a very tight gap.

[a_housos]

I installed suppressor plugs last night (Autolite APP-3923). Do you think that these are required? I was using the NGK race plugs before this (no suppression that I know of).

Anyhow, I will try tightening up the sensor this evening. I also just ordered the tabbed sensor.

I know that it has been some time, but is there any way to return the bad Hall sensor I received?