1GZ-FE V12 support

[elutionsdesign]

Hello, helping a gentleman get a Toyota V12 running using MS3Pro. We are at the point where we are trying to start, it will fire but quickly looses sync, I'm sure it is the cam signal causing confusion and am hoping we can get a modification to the 2JZ VVTI code. Please fine attached the tune file and a composite log. For anyone curious, here are a few more details on the motor: http://www.lextreme.com/V12.html.

Toyota ran this beast as two separate 2JZ motors, each bank had its own ECU and there was a third ECU watching over those. It has VVTI on the intake cams only and the cam signal is the traditional three equally spaced teeth. The crank signal is also the traditional 36-2 pattern. There are two crank sensors and two cam sensors stock, we are obviously only using one of each. The attached tune file is set up as toothed wheel with cam signal, I did also try the 2JZ VVTI setup but it clearly didn't like the 12 cylinders. The original coil configuration is wasted spark which we have retained, the original injector configuration is sequential which we would like to retain.

Cranking timing is solid at 10 BTDC, the composite log looks perfect. Is there a possibility the 2JZ code can be changed to accept 12 cylinders?

[elutionsdesign]

I guess one thought to get the motor running is to use the existing 2JZ code. Since the coils are waste spark I could simply set the firmware to sequential ignition and put in the first six of the firing order. I wouldn't get sequential injection that way but I could do some minor tuning in batch fire. Or would I? Would it only trigger the first six injectors? Next question, is there anything in the 2JZ code that would prevent me from running two VVTI intake cams?

[Marek]

Ignition wise, your second bank of six cylinders need to run 60' after the first bank.

Philip Lochner ran his v12 cars on MS2X (batch fired) by telling it it was a 6 cylinder car with wasted spark using EDIS. To get the second 6 cylinder EDIS unit to fire 60 crank degrees after the first, he built a delay module which delayed the signal fom the MS by 60' and fed it to the second EDIS unit.

kind regards
Marek

[elutionsdesign]

Interesting Marek, thank you for the information. I think the real answer will be setting the 2JZ VVTi code to accept 12 cylinders, from my review of the source code it can currently handle 6 and 8 (1UZ motor).

[jsmcortina]

Have you been able to run the engine as wasted spark, semi-sequential using the regular wheel decoder set to 36-2 ? That would let you determine the correct tooth#1 angle. I can then set the built-in decoder to use that same angle as well as decoding the cam signal and running fully sequential.

James

[elutionsdesign]

It will fire but not stay running as the cam signals cause a cam sync error. We have verified that a tooth #1 angle of 155 gives a cranking timing of 10 BTDC as commmanded by the controller.

[jsmcortina]

It will fire but not stay running as the cam signals cause a cam sync error. We have verified that a tooth #1 angle of 155 gives a cranking timing of 10 BTDC as commmanded by the controller.

Select "Single wheel with missing tooth" for this test.

James

[jsmcortina]

Test code sent by email.

James

[elutionsdesign]

So James was kind enough to build some test code for this beast which looks good in the composite log but for one real odd reason we can't keep the motor running. Using both the fully sequential injection and then just batch fire/single wheel missing tooth mode (wasted spark in both) whenever the rpm goes above the cranking threshold the pulse width drops to zero. So of course it fires, rpm climbs, fuel shuts off, rpm drops, fuel back on..... Any insight much appreciated, please see log and attached tune, both in single wheel missing tooth mode.

[jsmcortina]

As I guess by email - your Baro correction curve is wrong. It is set to all zero, so you get zero fuel. Set it to 100% if you don't want it to do anything.

James

[elutionsdesign]

Many thanks James. I will update tomorrow.

[elutionsdesign]

The motor is running quite well now in single wheel missing tooth mode. We had it running in full sequential for a short time but had AFR issues between the banks due to the use of dual throttle bodies so we're back in single wheel mode until we get them synced. Many thanks to James!

[elutionsdesign]

James, we have it running in full sequential mode now, running very sweetly. We tried to verify phase as you asked by retarding the timing of a specific cylinder but really got no definitive answer. Is there anything else to try and verify before we start working with an active VVTi?

[1gzvlc]

Hi guys,
My name is Dave from Australia,
I am in the process of building a full forged rotating assembly for my 1gz and a obvious FI setup, I am planning on using a MS3-PRO and GPIO for trans control.
Just curious to know if the engine you guys have just gotten running Is modified in anyway or just OE?
Is there a build thread i can follow?

Cheers
Dave

[elutionsdesign]

I'm not sure he is doing a build thread, I will ask. As far as the motor it is stock, we do have the VVTi doing its thing now as well. His next step is to drive and there are a few mechanical things to finish first, like cutting a hole in the hood and such. MS3Pro is working out well.

[1gzvlc]

Ok no problems thanks.
Good to know the ms3 will run it properly.
Once i get mine together can i pm you with questions or problems as i encounter them?
Dave

[elutionsdesign]

Of course you can.

[1gzvlc]

Thank you very much greatly appreciated

[1gzvlc]

Hi guys,
Old thread revival I know but wondering if you had a final msq file for this thing?

Thanks
Dave

[elutionsdesign]

You can PM me for details.