New install

[binlki1]

Im not sure if this means anything, but when I am testing with the stim,. If i jumper the cam pin on the mx3 to the second trigger. The board goes crazy and freezes up. Do you think this is related?

[binlki1]

hello all
My setup is a ms3 v3 with the mx3 expansion card. I have a Diyautotune 12-1 trigger wheel. Plan to run full sequential COP & fuel.
My question is shouldn't I have to jumper the second trigger to the cam input on the mx3?
If so why would the mx3 freek out.
The msq and datalogs are from the car not the stim I think the problem im having with th car is related.

[jsmcortina]

In order to simulate a wheel pattern that includes a cam signal, yes you need to connect the stim cam signal ("second trigger").

You posted a tune and log from your car but don't mention what problem there is or what you want help with.

I looked at them and notice the following:
1. you are using an older firmware, I'd suggest you update to the current release firmware available from the Download page
2. you have "poll level" set for the cam signal - does this known to work with the DIYAutotune disc? (I would have expected Rising or Falling.)
3. What's up with your warmup correction?
4. Looking at the log you are bouncing between cranking mode and run mode.
- cranking mode has a large 26ms pulsewidth
- run mode has a small 5ms pulsewidth
These ought to be similar as you are running full sequential. (In other configurations the number of squirts per cycle is different between crank and run.)
Are your base settings such as engine size and injector size set correctly?
Assuming those are correct and as you are using MAF mode, I'm thinking that the transfer curve is wildly incorrect. Try doubling the flow vs. voltage at low flows.

Perhaps also try raising the cranking RPM to say 800RPM to make it clearer which pulsewidth is allowing the engine to run.

James

James

[binlki1]

Hi James
I reconnected the stim and created new logs and msq. Sorry about not mentioning the problem with the car I have another post going in the ms3 fourm. The stim problem just came to mind.when I read this post

Re: what happens on loss of cam input ?
Postby dontz125 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:16 am

The way James explained it to me, when running a normal Dual Wheel (missing tooth), is that the code only checks for the cam tooth while cranking. Once it achieves sync, it ignores the cam signal until a loss sync event, at which point it tries again.

If you had a loss of sync AND a cam failure at the same time, then it should be running semi-seq. If you have the CEL / Limp Mode activated and set to monitor the cam signal, then all sorts of things can happen, depending on how you've set it up.[/color]

When recreating the logs and msq i noticed that when the 2nd trigger is NOT connected it seams to work fine. Connect it and bring up the rpm slowly and is acts just like the car (duh thats why it called a simulator) I noticed this before but I thought it was just me.
Something tells me this is related to the fact that whe I started this project I thought I would be running a single coil from the ms3 and the injectors from the mx3.
Any thoughts besides start over lol
Thanks
Kirk

[billr]

This is the thread with most of discussion on this problem, I suggest we keep it in that one thread:

msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=58096

[billr]

Let's hope some of the experts will join in here, I sure don't want you to get frustrated with MS just because of my inability to help!

[binlki1]

Hi bill
Thanks . Ment to say something about that.
Sorry and good morning

[jsmcortina]

This is the thread with most of discussion on this problem, I suggest we keep it in that one thread:

msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=58096

I merged the topics.

James

[jsmcortina]

Please review the points I made in my post.

James

[binlki1]

In order to simulate a wheel pattern that includes a cam signal, yes you need to connect the stim cam signal ("second trigger").

You posted a tune and log from your car but don't mention what problem there is or what you want help with.

I looked at them and notice the following:
1. you are using an older firmware, I'd suggest you update to the current release firmware available from the Download page
2. you have "poll level" set for the cam signal - does this known to work with the DIYAutotune disc? (I would have expected Rising or Falling.)
3. What's up with your warmup correction?
4. Looking at the log you are bouncing between cranking mode and run mode.
- cranking mode has a large 26ms pulsewidth
- run mode has a small 5ms pulsewidth
These ought to be similar as you are running full sequential. (In other configurations the number of squirts per cycle is different between crank and run.)
Are your base settings such as engine size and injector size set correctly?
Assuming those are correct and as you are using MAF mode, I'm thinking that the transfer curve is wildly incorrect. Try doubling the flow vs. voltage at low flows.

Perhaps also try raising the cranking RPM to say 800RPM to make it clearer which pulsewidth is allowing the engine to run.

James

James

Hi Guys
I updated the firmware .
Resetup the msq
Tested with the stim cam trigger problem seems to hace gone away And it appears to be working properly
Poll level is what diy suggests.

Spark mode: Toothed Wheel
Ignition input capture: Rising Edge
Spark output will depend on what output setup you're using. QuadSparks use Going High / Inverted; so do OEM SR20DET ignition modules. Getting this setting wrong can damage the ignition module and/or coils. If the ignition module or coils get hot with the key on and the engine off, turn the key off immediately and select the opposite output setting.
Trigger wheel arrangement: Dual wheel with missing tooth
Trigger wheel teeth: 12
Missing Teeth: 1
Tooth #1 angle: 345 (This varies slightly between individual engines. Check with a timing light and adjust as needed.)
Wheel speed: Crank wheel
Second trigger active on: Poll Level

The warmup correction was a futile attempt to get it to run.
The puleswidth is still doing the same thing. The required fuel is filled out properly 4 cylinder, 2400cc, 270 injectors stock hp rating in the 140 range.
where exactly do I change that since warmup enrichment also changes as well ASE right?
It actually idles pretty good till the pulswidth drops and it just runs out of fuel it seems like
Thanks
Kirk
New msq and datalog

[billr]

I suggest you turn off "accel enrichment" by setting the TPSdot threshold high, like 1000 or more; it looks like accel enrichment is always "on" once the engine is out of cranking range and that will confuse things right now. The ASE should matter much, since it is over with pretty quickly, but those bins could all be set to get it out of the way too. I know it is a pain to keep post the current tune and log files, but that helps a lot.

[binlki1]

Hey bill
I doubled the required fuel droped the cranking pulse down till it was 28-32 ms and wallah it starts oh and actualy runs.
It actually runs pretty good smooth hichups every now and then. I let run long enough to get war. and it started to act up. Now that its warm it doesn't want to start or run.
I will make the changes you suggested

heres a nw msq log

[billr]

Log was repeated there, no new .msq attached...

[billr]

I am questioning your MAP sensor calibration. I think I noted that it dropped quicker than I would have expected when the engine first fired, but that was kind of a subjective observation. Now, in the last couple of run logs posted, I'm seeing the "ambient" MAP at 117kPa. That may not be impossible, but is rather unlikely. Is your altitude one of the few on Earth that is below sea-level, has the weather been such recently that atmospheric pressure is abnormally high?

[binlki1]

Lol im in Kentucky we have wacked but I don't think but think so and im pretty sure were not below sea level.
Sorry about the logs ill check and I have a new set anyway. Turns out I have something going with the fuel pump curcit. Direct conected the pump car runs idles you can giv it throttle however it has decided to idle at about 1300 rpm Havent quite figured that out yet. I also noticed since the upgrade my maf sensor is clueless (I should say my IAT sensor) the calibration options changed and nothing seems to work.

Gona have to create anothe log file this one is to big
Thanks
Kirk

[binlki1]

This log goes with the set before this one

[binlki1]

Ok this data log goes with 19:59:30.

[billr]

There is always debate about this, but I recommend that you not use "req_fuel" as a tuning parameter. Calculate it correctly and leave it alone. Note that if you are using E10, then the stoic for that calculation should be about 14.2; resulting in a req_fuel for you of 15.8. My understanding is that is the only place in TS that you use the "real" stoic; after that you and any O2 sensor you use are looking for 14.7

It's not that an engine can't be tuned horsing around a bit with "req_fuel", a lot of people resort to that. However, many other parameters and table become skewed away from what is normal for engines, it makes it harder for us to help. An analogy I will offer is changing tire size (OD) without similar change to the speedo system. The car can still be driven at any desired speed, as long as you know what the off-set is and add/subtract that form the speedo/odo readings. But, if anybody else tries to drive it, it will be very cumbersome for them to get used to; and that's if they are even aware of the speedo/odo readings being bogus.

Have you measured the injector flow and dead-time yet? I urge you to do that, it will make things easier for you in the long-run.

[binlki1]

Hello Bill
Thanks for the info on req-fuel, it just seemed logical since the pulsewidth would be 30s during cranking and after start it would drop to 5 or less. O2 would start out ok and just slowly go lean and car acted like it was running out of ffuel. When the rpm got low enough the cranking sequence would start again pulse width would jump to the 30s and it would catch again And repeat the process over. I will change req-fuel to 15.8.. I understand what you mean About this change . No I have not measured the flow and dead time I will do that today.

This may or may not be relevant. But my TPS seems a bit flakey the calibration keeps floating around. And th maf is out lunch since firm ware updated. Note on that tps wiring is from another wiring harness (same model car) . Infact the entire loom was built that way. That being said the tps, distributor are shieled wires from old harness , coils And maf sensors are shielded wire from radio shack. This loom will most likely be replaced Before long. Also I assembled this unit my self so hardware problems are not out of the question.
Going to have to do a little work today so updates will probley be a little slow.

Thanks again for all your help and advice with this
Kirk
Something I noticed when I went to change req-fuel it was back 14.0 not sure what happened their. Now set 15.8
Oh and the options for accel enrich set to off

[billr]

It was late in the day, I made a mistake... I meant 15.4 not 15.8, and that would only be if your fuel is E10.

On the TPS signal, are you worried about the small (1%) jitter when the throttle is closed, or are you saying that the pulses up toward 13% aren't real, that the throttle is still closed there?

I sure hope some other folks join us here, I don't want to send you "wandering in the weeds"!

Edit: There are other advantages to using the correctly calculated "req_fuel" besides just not confusing others looking at your tune. A prime one is that injector flow-rate can be changed (either by changing injectors or fuel pressure) fairly easily.