Placement of 8 WB's on a V8 header

Yves · Post by **Yves** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:03 pm

I need to make changes to my exhaust system and have to take my headers off. I'm thinking this might be a good time to add bungs for lamdasensors in each primary for future placement of 8 WB's. However this seems to be difficult and the arrangement of the tubes makes the bungs sit at an infavorable angle. Anyone ever done this on a V8 header ?

racingmini_mtl · Post by **racingmini_mtl** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:41 pm

Scott Clark (dieselgeek) would likely be the person with the best experience on this. You might want to try to contact him if he doesn't see this post.

Jean

Peter Florance · Post by **Peter Florance** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:03 am

They make some 45 degree bungs which may help. A lot of wide bands won't like the heat. The discontinued NGK worked really well.

Paul_VR6 · Post by **Paul_VR6** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:48 am

You can still get the "old ngk" from Ballenger Motorsports under the afr500 name. Identical to the ngk unit. Great for stoich and way, way richer.

Buying eight though would hurt a bit!

racingmini_mtl · Post by **racingmini_mtl** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:58 am

As I said, Scott Clark has done this and, as far as I know, it was with the LSU sensor. If you can find pictures from the engines he tuned for the Engine Master's Challenge, you might be able to see what it looks like. Of course, a dyno-only setup is not the same thing but that should still be useful.

Jean

nathaninwa · Post by **nathaninwa** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:57 pm

Just adding to conversation. Preference of the w/b over an egt probe? Talking with my local dyno/race shop which runs a ethanol 1200whp eclipse, found running wide bands, his install saw 100* increase in egt from a 12.1 afr to a 12.2 afr

Yves · Post by **Yves** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:07 pm

a setup on a dyno is an interely different thing imo. The short time that they are used to run and the environment they are run in probably doesn't lead to any issues with condensation.

The main problem I have are the lower tubes on the header. These run up to the 2 center ports and are a mayor pia to fit a sensor. I can only set them on the tubes sideways, or in the part going up, but then then sensor is prone to condensation hitting it.

If I want to mount them upward, my best bet would be in the primary just after the exhaust port but that would create mayor heat in the sensor. I do intend to use the extented bung though. Not just for heat reasons, but also to avoid too much obstruction to the exhaust.

racingmini_mtl · Post by **racingmini_mtl** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:46 pm

If condensation is your main concern, you could be looking at a way to power the wideband controllers a short while after the engine starts either manually or automatically. That way, condensation will not be hitting a hot sensor so there won't be any thermal shock even if there is any condensation hitting the sensors. You probably still don't want to be boiling off a puddle of water but a few drops should likely be ok.

Jean

Yves · Post by **Yves** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:31 am

Is that a setting in TS ?

Anyone here ever put them close to the exhaust port ?

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:30 am

I'd sort of understood a wideband can't stand the heat of being close to the exhaust port, unlike a narrow band. Unless there are versions which can these days.

Peter Florance · Post by **Peter Florance** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:24 am

racingmini_mtl wrote:As I said, Scott Clark has done this and, as far as I know, it was with the LSU sensor. If you can find pictures from the engines he tuned for the Engine Master's Challenge, you might be able to see what it looks like. Of course, a dyno-only setup is not the same thing but that should still be useful.

Jean

No, it was using NTK sensors. I borrowed the setup once before the controllers started to fail (or were damaged).

racingmini_mtl · Post by **racingmini_mtl** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:27 am

Peter Florance wrote:No, it was using NTK sensors. I borrowed the setup once before the controllers started to fail (or were damaged).

Ok. I know he's done at least one setup with LSU sensors but it may not have been an Engine Master's Challenge setup.

Jean

Yves · Post by **Yves** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:19 pm

I think I can get them in, but a couple of them will be at a foot or so distance from the port.

racingmini_mtl · Post by **racingmini_mtl** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:27 pm

That seems quite close but it might be ok with the extended heat sink bungs. If you can use controllers that can report the sensor temperature (not just if they overheat), that would be a good way to keep this in check. I know this is possible with some of the 14point7 products but there are probably others.

Jean

Yves · Post by **Yves** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:02 pm

I'm looking at the 14point7 items as these are quite cheap compared to others. This doesn't mean that as whole this is a cheap deal. I need to outweight advantages and disadvantages. However I have noticed that some cyls are running pretty lean compared to others.

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