Which MS3 Version and which supplier.

[garrycol]

The engine is a Rover V8 4.6 with sequential injection and ECU controlled ignition. Later, LPG will be added to make the engine dual fuel so switchable (on the fly) dual maps will be required but at a later stage .

I am confused a bit on what MS version I require but MS3 seems to fit the bill, bit there does seem to be different iterations of MS3 and I am not sure what is what.

So I am after advice what MS3 version I need, what "add ons" I need and which supplier is the best to buy from?

The 4.6 runs a camshaft position sensor and a 62-2 crankshaft sensor - will these run MS3 or do I need the the more traditional MS trigger wheel etc. Also will MS3 run the Rover Coil packs (I understand these do not have drivers) or will I need to change to EDIS 8 or use coil pack with drivers such as LS? coils which have inbuilt drivers (so I am told).

Thanks

Garry
Canberra Australia

[DaveEFI]

There are two basic versions of the main PCB, the V3 and V3.57. They are basically the same, but the first uses through hole components so can be DIY built and is easier to repair if ever needed. The V3.57 is machine assembled with surface mount components.

You'll need an MS3X - the 'Xtra' board gives you the eight injector drivers needed for sequential.

IIRC, the later RV8 uses wasted spark, so you'll need an additional 3 coil drivers. Or you could use EDIS 8 which works very well on this engine.

I'm not sure about the 60-2 format. In the UK, pretty well all such units are autos, but I've only ever seen it and MS used with a manual. And manual flywheels with the 60-2 near impossible to find - so many use a 36-1 trigger wheel, as kits for these and this engine are common.

I

[Matt Cramer]

That's probably a 60-2 wheel, and very easy to run with MS3. You'd need ignition modules like the QuadSpark to run them.

Did you want to build the MS3 from a kit, or buy one ready made?

[Laminar]

The 4.6 runs a camshaft position sensor and a 62-2 crankshaft sensor - will these run MS3 or do I need the the more traditional MS trigger wheel etc. Also will MS3 run the Rover Coil packs (I understand these do not have drivers) or will I need to change to EDIS 8 or use coil pack with drivers such as LS? coils which have inbuilt drivers (so I am told).

I have a Ford V8. I bought a set of LS truck coils and mounting brackets on eBay for $100 (not sure what kind of availability you'd have in AU). I mounted the LS brackets to my stock valve covers and the MS3 drives the coils directly, no intermediary boxes or chips. It seemed to me to be the simplest solution.

[garrycol]

Dave - thanks for your response - answers a lot of my MS3 questions. I understand the standard 4.0/4.6 auto ring gear with the ??? (teeth, magnets or whatever) can be riveted to the back of and earlier flywheel - but a MS trigger wheel on the crank pulley would probably be just as easy as long as it can handle the sequential injection and ignition.

Matt - I take it you are one of the suppliers I need to talk to but are you the cheapest for equivalent products? I have built a few electronic kits in the past and repaired a few auto electronic boards and such so am happy to build but only if it were much cheaper. So if I went the original coil packs (which I dont have at the moment but are cheap locally) I would need your Quadspark module? All our local GM performance vehicles use LS# engines so these should be common and cheap but not checked them as yet. EDIS 8 basically does not exist so I would need to import with virtually no local support. With one small exception Ford Aust did not use EDIS 8 and it stopped being used in the late 90s.

Laminar - thanks for confirming the LS coils work - I haven't looked into them as yet but they should be plentiful locally and hopefully cheap.

Other than Matt - any other good suppliers I should be looking at?

Thanks

Garry

[jsmcortina]

For an introduction to the product range, see here: http://www.msextra.com/product-range/

James

[Laminar]

I have built a few electronic kits in the past and repaired a few auto electronic boards and such so am happy to build but only if it were much cheaper. So if I went the original coil packs (which I dont have at the moment but are cheap locally) I would need your Quadspark module? All our local GM performance vehicles use LS# engines so these should be common and cheap but not checked the

I bought from DIYAutoTune and decided to build the board myself. The MS3 DIY kit is $385 vs. the MS3 assembled kit at $559. On top of either of those you'll need the MS3X expansion card for $105 to support full sequential injection/ignition on your V8. I bought their wiring harnesses as well and continually find having every wire color-coded and printed with the channel name is extremely handy as I modify and add features.

[DaveEFI]

The LS coils would be a good choice if you can source them at a good price. Sadly, they're expensive in the UK. But if you want sequential ignition, probably the way to go. The QuadSpark and original coils will give you wasted spark.
As regards buying the MS, you need to work out the difference between buying one locally (if you can) and importing - the last depends on duty and carriage. DIY build is very satisfying - if you like that sort of thing, and not too difficult if you have some experience and can solder well. It also helps understanding the device if you do it stage by stage testing as you go.
A 36-1 wheel works just fine. Again, you need to work out the price of this against converting a manual flywheel.

Is this a Thor unit, and what is it fitted to?

[garrycol]

James - thanks for the link.

Laminar - thanks for the information - what I am looking for.

Dave - yes is the Thor - as we have talked about on other forums - in a FC 101. I believe in researching widely before deciding what I want to do. Had decided to go a modified motoronics ECU but to fault find I will need a Nanocom or Faultmate which bring the cost up to similar to a MS system - code readers are cheaper but to do proper diagnostics the full kit is needed. There are no MS suppliers locally so everything will need to be imported - US prices for the same stuff is a lot cheaper than UK sources.

Next to the US, Australia is the home of the LS1 so parts are freely available - with the benefit of hindsight it probably would have been cheaper to put in a 6.2l LS3 rather than the 4.6 RV8.

garry

[DaveEFI]

If no local supplier, DIYautotune would be my choice. I tend to use them in preference to UK suppliers too. As they supply DIY build kits.

I did wonder about costs for getting the Motronic modified for stand alone use - and even then it's not going to have the flexibility of an MS3X.

The Thor is going to be as easy as the RV8 comes to use an MS3X with sequential everything.

[242ATL]

DIYAUTOTUNE!!!! Wouldn't go anywhere else.

[Raymond_B]

I will 2nd DIYautotune.

Support is worth a huge amount of $$$ to me. Matt and everyone at DIYautotune have always been helpful and had no problem answering my initial steady stream of questions

[garrycol]

Looks like that is a vote for DIY Autotune

[jb007]

I'll 3rd that, I have had no issue with DIYAutoTune... I mention them a lot on my Blog.

Jim

[garrycol]

Ok - now ordered the MS3X and JimStim from DIYAUTOTUNE and have a big list of additional items to buy in due course.

The OEM trigger count on my engine is 60-2 (not the 62-2 typo in my post above) but this is built into the flywheel which I do not have (older 3.5 flywheel) not the crank sensor.

So a trigger wheel and sensor on the front of the engine running off the crank pulley is the way to go.

However i am now a bit confused as no one seems to make a 60-2 trigger wheel (please tell me if you know where I can get one). Information above indicates a 36-1 wheel will work but I don't have the knowledge to work out what I need.

So - MS3X running sequential and the OEM camshaft sensor with ignition provided by EDIS 8 - what trigger wheel to get?

Thanks

Garry

Ps I could buy a used 4.6 auto flex plate and remove the trigger ring and then rivet it to my older heavier flywheel and buy a crank sensor bit it would be easier and cheaper to just use a trigger wheel off the crank pulley.

Thanks

Garry

[jsmcortina]

For EDIS you absolutely must use a 36-1 wheel. The wheel:sensor phasing must be set as Ford intended. See the Hardware manual.

James

[garrycol]

So then I assume that MS3X is using the camshaft sensor to work out when to fire the injectors leaving the trigger wheel to tell MS3X when to send the ignition signal to EDIS.

[DaveEFI]

EDIS passes on a crank position signal to MS (PIP) MS then generates a signal from its ignition map etc to tell EDIS when to fire the coils. (SAW)
The cam position sensor tells MS engine phase - only needed with sequential injection
But when the injector fires is still determined by the crank position.

What this means in practice is the setting and type of the cam position sensor isn't critical. A simple one pulse per cam revolution type will do if you were making your own.

[garrycol]

Thanks for the information - 36-1 it is then.

Cheers

Garry

[Paul_VR6]

Why not use the internal 60-2 and just use the edis coil and build the box for direct fire (or use quadspark)?