Strange spark at start

[kris5150]

Greetings!

Recently i have swaped a 01 automatic 1.8 vvt engine into NA chassies Miata/mx5 (EUDM 1.6 98')
I'm using MS3 from extraEFI and lc2 wideband, other that that engine is completly stock with 1.6 coils.
I'm complete noob in the MS field so please excuse if this is stupid but, when i turn the key to give contact ( when the fuel pump starts ) i get the spark from the sparkplugs,
but when i'm cranking the engine there is no spark at all.
Also there is "no rpm sync" colored red at all times during the MS3 is powered up.
I have base map loaded on the MS that came with it, i only changed minor settings about what i have and dont have, and inverted spark to NO, since the last setting fried my coils.
The other thing i noticed is that he test mode doesnt seem to be working, i have folowed the instructions from msextra PDF and i dont get any fedback when cranking!

msq in attachment

Thanks!

[grom_e30]

when you are cranking the engine does the rpm gauge in tuner studio read a steady rpm? any chance you can make a data log of a failed start attempt and also a composite log may be useful as well

[kris5150]

The gauge shows no rpm at all.
I have made a data log, i hope it's ok..couldnt make it longer since it drained my battery.
In the first post when i was saying that the test mode doesnt work i was refering to the composite log, even after a 30-40 second cranking there was no data.

msl in attachment

[grom_e30]

yeah no rpm what so ever what type of sensors do you have hall or vr?

edit: typo

[kris5150]

hall-efect for crank and cam ;)

[grom_e30]

can you measure the output on the signal wire, im wondering if you may need pull up resistors if you need pull up resistors?

[kris5150]

i get 4.90V on cam, and 0.02V on crank

[grom_e30]

if you turn the crank does the voltage change? should be able to check just turning the engine by hand. have you confirmed you have power and ground at the sensor as well?

[kris5150]

Nope the voltage stays the same. Yes the 12V is solid and also the ground!

[grom_e30]

Sounds like you need to add a pull up resistor, about 1k between the power and the signal wire.

[kris5150]

I will try that in the morning. Is the location of it importat? like closer to the sensor or further?
Also, will this fix the key-on spark or is that whole other thing?

[grom_e30]

shouldn't matter where it is. the key on spark thing usually happens when your coils are powered off the ignition, it is usually solved by powering the coils from the fuel pump relay so the coils have no power until the ecu is ready to control them.

[kris5150]

So i did that and now i have 3.6V at cranking
Also compositive log now seems to be working, it's in attachment.
But still i recive no spark at cranking, only at key-on.

[grom_e30]

the latest log still shows no rpm signal.

[kris5150]

I indeed noticed that, but have no idea on what am doing or not doing wrong?
Is that a electronical faul, wrong connections, fault sensors or merely wrong setting in MS?

[grom_e30]

im going to guess a wiring or sensor fault as you appear to be getting no signal what so ever. remove the sensor give it power and ground and you should measure a voltage on the output wire (if you get no voltage you need the pull up resistor between the sensor power and the signal wire) then put some made of steel in front of the sensor and the signal wire should then be grounded if the sensor is working.

[kris5150]

Yes i got the 1k pull-up and i recive 3.6V on the signal wire.
How can the signal wire be grounded if there is voltage in it?

[grom_e30]

when the sensor has metal in front of it it the electronics inside it will make the signal wire a ground, the resistor is there to limit the current so this is possible.

[billr]

The current in that circuit is coming through the pull-up resistor, so the voltage is dropped (down to near-zero) by the resistor. I know that sounds like "double-speak", but I can't figure out how to explain it clearer! Search for "Ohm's Law" on the web.

[jsmcortina]

Take a look at the diagrams on this page: http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/MS3 ... .4-73.html and the pages before and after.

James