Gen-III Hemi - No Sync message

[ntstlgl1970]

odd cam signal.jpg

I'm running MS3X 3.57 using the factory sensors on my 6.1 hemi. The engine uses two quadspark boxes with stock coils. When I crank the engine, I get no RPM registering on the gauge in TS.

I followed the chrysler 36-2+2 setup instructions in the manual and double checked against the diyautotune article. I've adjusted both the cam and crank potentiometers to get ~2.5v I think the crank sensor signal looks ok, but the cam signal is suspect since it doesn't have an actual "tooth". I have not had the engine running yet. I'm guessing that I need to turn the sensitivity up more on the cam sensor, I just want some confirmation that I am headed in the right direction.

I've had this controller running with another engine, but that was setup as waste spark with EDIS and bank to bank injection, where this engine is all sequential

the attached log is a composite log, I can add another log if needed, let me know which one...

Thanks for any help in advance

[jsmcortina]

Try temporarily configuring it for wasted-COP and semi-sequential fuel. That will ignore the cam signal for now.

James

[ntstlgl1970]

I'll try that James, thank you

[ntstlgl1970]

Hmm, I'm still having issues. Made change that James suggested but The ms3 keeps losing sync while cranking. Not sure why

Added cranking log file, current msq and MLV file from when cranking. The crank sensor signal in the MLV file looks weird. The car tries to start, but when it loses sync, it appears to throw the ignition timing off so it acts like the firing order is wrong when it tries to sync up again (I'm double checking the coil and injector wiring to be safe)

[ntstlgl1970]

firmware is 1.3.4 2015 0123

I'll update that tonight and see if it makes any difference

[ntstlgl1970]

firmware is 1.3.4 2015 0123

I'll update that tonight and see if it makes any difference

I updated the firmware to 1.40
I also picked up a jimstim and jimstimx. I can get the ms to work correctly on the bench in full sequential after turning on noise filtering all the leds sequence correctly the jimstimx. I reinstalled the ms in the car and now I have what appears to be a good cam signal but still no RPM on the dashboard. I also confirmed all the injectors and coils (coil on plug) are wired correctly via the test page in TS. This is really frustrating, anyone have a suggestion on what I can try next?

[DaveEFI]

Just comment - I'd not expect to need any noise filtering when using a JimStim. It produces a clean signal, and no long cables to pick up noise.

[ntstlgl1970]

Just comment - I'd not expect to need any noise filtering when using a JimStim. It produces a clean signal, and no long cables to pick up noise.

Thank you for that, I removed the ms from the car and turned off noise filtering on the bench and started over on the pots for the crank and cam sensors. Good thing is that I am getting the same issue on the bench with the jimstim (no RPM signal, goes from cranking to no cranking indicator on the TS dash). I also still have the same spike on the red line. This is all with the ms3x card unplugged so I'm only looking at the crank sensor signal. Hopefully I missed something simple....

[jsmcortina]

Gen-3 hemi uses 60-2, but your MSQ is set for 36-2+2. That's why it doesn't work.

James

[ntstlgl1970]

Hmm, I don't think this one is a 60-2 crank wheel, but I will check it anyway. Thanks!

[jsmcortina]

Hmm, I don't think this one is a 60-2 crank wheel, but I will check it anyway. Thanks!

Count the teeth in the composite log.

James

[ntstlgl1970]

This is weird, a 60-2 wheel but not a VVT engine (the block doesn't have the provision in the casting for it). This is a crate engine so I guess all bets are off.

In this thread, there is talk of having code to support this but I don't see it as a selection on the ignition tab like the 36-2+2 wheel.

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... vt#p400678

Do I need to use the toothed wheel setting and enter all that data or is there a 60-2 NGC setting somewhere?

I now have an RPM signal in TS!
I set the ignition to dual wheel 60-2. not sure what other changes I need to make. I would rather run COP than COP wasted spark if at all possible

[billr]

Since you have a 60-2 crank wheel, and want wasted-COP, don't fight it; set it for a 60-2 and be done with it.

[ntstlgl1970]

Since you have a 60-2 crank wheel, and want wasted-COP, don't fight it; set it for a 60-2 and be done with it.

I set the ignition to wasted COP on James' advice when testing, I would much rather run regular COP since my engine doesn't have coils with the waste spark wiring to the companion cylinder like the earlier motors.

I won't try and start the engine until I can sort out what the rest of the settings should be for this combination of 60-2 crank wheel and NGC cam wheel

[jsmcortina]

That looks like the Hemi VVT cam pattern.

Try enabling VVT and setting the Hemi VVT decoder. You don't need to enable an actual control output.

James

[ntstlgl1970]

That looks like the Hemi VVT cam pattern.

Try enabling VVT and setting the Hemi VVT decoder. You don't need to enable an actual control output.

James

Thanks James, I'll try that tonight. Do I still need to determine the tooth#1 angle on the crank wheel, or should I leave it at the default of 80 degrees BTDC?

[jsmcortina]

Thanks James, I'll try that tonight. Do I still need to determine the tooth#1 angle on the crank wheel, or should I leave it at the default of 80 degrees BTDC?

Absolutely you need to do that.

James

[ntstlgl1970]

So I come up with 338 degrees BTDC.

Sounds weird but that's what it is....checked it twice. I'm also going to double check to make sure I didn't disturb the TDC pointer. Since it sounds so weird, I'm including pictures

I'm assuming it doesn't really matter where #1 tooth is as long as it's correct. If I enter in 338 in the #1 tooth box and the ignition timing matches up where it should be, I'm done, correct?

[billr]

I'm not sure what you are trying to show with that picture of the dampener and pointer. If you set a number in TS for "fixed" timing, then the light should flash and show the same timing at the crank. If you set 0 for "fixed", the light should show ignition is at TDC.

[ntstlgl1970]

Just showing the angle of #1 tooth

Double checked the timing pointer was at 0 at TDC, all good there. Timing light came up with 22 BTDC on commanded 10 while cranking so I'll have to adjust that

Got it to start up briefly tonight so I'm feeling much better, I ran out of time so I'll continue on Friday.

Thanks to all for helping out!