Dumb Boost Targets Question

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NigeT
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Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by NigeT »

Here's a better log, 2k to nearly 7k uphill in 3rd gear. My instrument panel revcounter seems to be reading a little high, hence I stopped just short of 7k rpm.
2016-06-12_21.27.20.msl
Can someone suggest my next step for moving to current firmware and fixing my boost control issues?
nathaninwa
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Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by nathaninwa »

Can you post the datalog
Volvo 940, 2jzge, MS3Pro, daily
240Z, 2JZ, MS3Pro boost control
NigeT
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Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by NigeT »

The link is in the last post, 2016-06-12_21.27.20.msl. I just checked and could click on and download it to my phone. Thanks.
NigeT
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Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by NigeT »

Log attached rather than in-line.
nathaninwa
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Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by nathaninwa »

Sorry I missed it inline. I'll check it out when I get home from work today
Volvo 940, 2jzge, MS3Pro, daily
240Z, 2JZ, MS3Pro boost control
NigeT
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Posts: 419
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:14 pm

Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by NigeT »

I appreciate any time you can give up to looking at it and helping me. Thanks.
nathaninwa
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Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by nathaninwa »

That pull looks great. A little fueling issues

Whats your concern about upgrading firmware? Download the latest release and look over the release notes.
Volvo 940, 2jzge, MS3Pro, daily
240Z, 2JZ, MS3Pro boost control
NigeT
Master MS/Extra'er
Posts: 419
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:14 pm

Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by NigeT »

I am puzzled by the fueling. Little or nothing has been changed, but the car recently was running really rich and then the wideband started going crazy... Then Dimitri suggested adjusting the EGO correcting settings, disabling the Authority Table, since then the wideband has seemed more normal and the car run much better, which allowed me to log the pull with boost control disabled (mechanically by removing the valve from the loop because disabling it in TunerStudio caused 0 run pulse width and stopped the car starting) that you had asked me to do.
An odd thing I noticed was that Static/Target Rail Differential Pressure (psimg) is set to 43.5, but I remember it being 50 psi.
My TPS seems noisy or a bit variable 0 can be a few percent negative... Is this problematic?
For the 1.4.1 release note sections 1, 3 and 5 worry me.
1) I have Barometric Correction set to None - do I really need to now set it to "old style"? Another oddity is that Default Baro(sPa) is set to 60.0 in my tune!
3) I have two boost control tables - I have no clue how to convert my existing initial values tables to bias tables.
5) I'm not sure how oblivious other changes will be in the Setting Up manual, I guess it is somewhere in the doc site.
Thanks.


Nigel
nathaninwa
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Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by nathaninwa »

Looks like you only Have a couple target areas, 140, 160, and 185kpa

Looking at your initial value table I'm not sure I would use those numbers as it looks to me they were not tuned properly by way of duty increase in blocks of 10dc. I may be wrong though

Easy way to get DC numbers for the bias table would be to make a 3rd gear pull on table one and see what the average boostdc is in the datalog. That will be in the 160kpa row on the bias table

Then make a pull on table two and look at the end of the run where it's 185kpa and interpolate those values back on a 185 row on the bias table setup

Use the old baro correction and leave your current values

Some idle stuff will need redone. It's in the notes too. I think it's just re-enabling stuff and power cycling
Volvo 940, 2jzge, MS3Pro, daily
240Z, 2JZ, MS3Pro boost control
NigeT
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Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by NigeT »

Thanks Nathan, so reconnect the vacuum "plumbing" for the boost valve and then do the pulls, and do this before upgrade. I thought there was 140, 160 and 185 in the tables, but I guess the 140 is pretty much actuator "spring".

You earlier mentioned some fueling issues. I need to ssy that I still have the PLX wideband that I don't entirely trust - the AEM wasn't a trivial job to mount (gauge harness needs extending...) and since I had already decided to use the MS-Labs CAN module for a digital connection, it has gone to him temporarily. I also don't entirely trust the Fab9tuning COPs kit (failed once already taking out catalytic converter...) and I am collecting parts to make a harness to use Honda S2000 / Civic COPs.

Once on the new firmware is it possible to tweak the VE table by calculation to remove the "old style" barometric correction and correct my iffy default value (and the fuel pressure once I've tested it)?
NigeT
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Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by NigeT »

One thing about boost control duty cycle that I'm really unclear about is whether the percentage is absolute or a percentage of the range between the configured minimum and maximum duty cycle percentages. In my tune from Ardler Automotive I think maximum duty was set to 60%, but the highest in the tables was 65% - would that be capped at 60% absolute, or would it be 65% of 60% (39%)
nathaninwa
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Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by nathaninwa »

It's not percentage of set limits. It's actual duty cycle

And I don't know the awnser to the old baro question
Volvo 940, 2jzge, MS3Pro, daily
240Z, 2JZ, MS3Pro boost control
NigeT
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Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:14 pm

Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by NigeT »

Thanks. So I will just go with the "old style" option when I switch to the new firmware and leave the other settings exactly as you suggested. I'm sure the algorithm for pw from ve and other factors is documented somewhere so it must be possible to reverse engineer the ve table after correcting the "wrong" factors in my tune I would guess.
I need to have a good look at that log to see what the fueling issues are. Maybe tomorrow - been dealing with issues with my other (commute and general purpose) car and mowing grass today.
Thanks again.
NigeT
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Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by NigeT »

I finally managed to capture one of the big problems I have been getting with the car - intermittently "hitting a wall" while accelerating, frequently when not WOT. It seems I am hitting the overboost protection (fuel cut). Attached are current tune (using the AEM digital wideband gauge-controller via CAN) and a shortened log with the overboost event. Still stuck on 1.3.4 firmware.

How do I go about tuning this out?

Many thanks for any suggestions as always.
Matt Cramer
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Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by Matt Cramer »

Something is very wrong with that MSQ, but the overboost protection means shut down my engine right now if the boost hits this level!!!!!, not that this is where the boost should top out. Set the overboost protection number appropriately.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
NigeT
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Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by NigeT »

Thanks Matt. Is 10kPa above target is too small a margin?

This is the MSQ my original tuner gave me with very few fringe changes. Can you give me some insights about the things that are wrong with it? I am gathering boost duty data to allow me to move to the 1.4.x firmware at which point I want to start addressing the deficiencies one at a time.
NigeT
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Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by NigeT »

I see now that the last tune file I saved from Tuner Studio seems corrupt - not great since I now have to redo the changes.
NigeT
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Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by NigeT »

Or just read it back off the Megasquirt - doh! That way I just lose the comments I added yesterday noting boost bias values to use for 1.4. Concerned about how it got to be corrupted.
NigeT
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Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by NigeT »

Or even better just use the restore points that TunerStudio cunningly takes for you! It is also good to realise that when using the MS-Labs CAN module you get two tune files and you need to upload the one for the MS3, not the CAN module. :-(
I'll upload the correct one tonight.
NigeT
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Re: Dumb Boost Targets Question

Post by NigeT »

And here is the MSQ I meant to attach the other day.
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