hitting a wall @5000 rpm

[ZOOMZOOMs]

2016-06-16_16.55.42.msl

2016-06-16_16.55.42.msl

2016-06-16_17.18.36.msl

2016-06-16_18.10.14.csv

good evening to all!! after all the timing trouble, the bbc have a new 60-2 trigger wheel, it works very nice, and seem to "tooth log" very clean, but... antd this is a big BUT it seems to hit a wall @ 5000 rpm, i checked the polarity of the vr sensor, and seems o.k even logs well, try to use "in line " resistors (up to 70k ohm) and a shunt resistor (as in microsquirt), nothing seems to help, so ..i shot some logs, just to know the experts opinion...
in advance thanks for looking and helping!!

[ZOOMZOOMs]

5000rpm cut.msq

here´s the msq, it feels just like a launch control or spark cut limiter.

thanks again
Juan

[slow_hemi6]

As this is a single coil V8 I would try a Nominal Dwell of 2.2mS and a Spark Duration of 1mS. I also don't really understand why you have a cranking advance of 22 degrees and why in general settings it is saying you have a 2000cc V8.

[ZOOMZOOMs]

it is a single coil v8, you´re right , i forgot to mention that the ecu is triggering a msd 6al, and the hardware manual suggest to set it like this.... but, i have tried fixed duty 50%and 25% ... also tried 1ms spark duration with 1.8 ms dwell ... no difference at all

as i understand, the cc is only used to calculate the required fuel value, it´have been correctly calculated.. can you teach me about the importance of this value if the rq/f is correctly calculated?

the cranking advance seems high... but works great in this: very low comp bbc at over 7000 ft altitude!!!

thanks a lot for your advice!!!

[billr]

The tooth-log doesn't look all that good to me on page 5, but I suppose it doesn't matter if you aren't logging sync-loss. Yeah, correct the stuff mentioned above so we can follow along OK. With a single-coil you only have 3 mS total between spark events at 5000 rpm, that's right about where my NA BBC would run into problems with single-coil. With boost you need even a better spark?

Edit: I gotta ask... have you checked that the spark timing is as-indicated, and stable through the whole rpm range? The value of giving proper info in the MSQ is that we can check that the req_fuel is correct; another set of eyes on your work. Why bother to not provide the correct numbers???

[slow_hemi6]

With CDI rotor phasing has to be set perfectly so the desired tower is always less distance for the spark to jump than the distributor body or a neighboring tower. I have seen a lot of miss fires from the rotor being too far from the tower at max advance.

[whittlebeast]

You are having battery voltage issues. I am suspect the that the AL6 is causing issues. You should be real close to 14-14.3 volts at that sort of RPM. This looks like the AL6 may have a rev limit setting in.

Your motor looks fat up top but I doubt that is causing the miss.

Andy

[ZOOMZOOMs]

wasted spark.msq

2016-06-20_12.23.05.csv

2016-06-20_12.22.22.msl

so bored about the "dizzy" presumably giving troubles, that i decide to install wasted spark coils, new plugs, new coils, new ht leads... same problem. i add a new data log and a sync error log, of course i correct the msq also added.

thanks a lot for your help

Juan

[billr]

Hmm... now you have sync-loss. Were any changes made to the crank wheel, sensor, or is wiring? Ignition dwell is still kind of low, raise it up now that you are no longer limited by the dizzy. Post a new tooth-log, too.

[Matt Cramer]

I'm seeing a pretty clear loss of sync. Try turning off the "Noise Filter Enabled" - I think it's filtering out real signals. If that doesn't work, post a tooth log; they're a bit easier for me to read on a 60-2 pattern.

[ZOOMZOOMs]

2016-06-20_15.33.54.csv

thanks matt! this is the tooth log, i tried opening the sensor gap.. but turns almost impossible to start

[Matt Cramer]

The tooth log looks OK - was the sync loss happening when you made it?

[ZOOMZOOMs]

is strange matt... sometimes it looks like a sync loss, sometimes no... but the behavior is always the same.... in a couple hours i can make another tooth log , and hopefully it show the sync loss

[ZOOMZOOMs]

sorry i try another thing , trying to resolve this .... now i use a diy autotune hall sensor, trying to remove possible causes.. same problem..
add a tooth log of the trouble ... while playing with the gap...

i´m at the insanity edge!!! tomorrow gonna let the trigger wheel taking care of the injectors, but let the ignition stand alone with a msd dizzy and msd 6al non ecu controlled.

this test must show me if is ignition related or not...

2016-06-21_19.02.00.csv

thanks for your support and ideas

[billr]

Did you ever increase the spark dwell? I know it is kind of a pain, but posting an MSQ and MSL after every change can help.

[Matt Cramer]

Composite log showed it missed a tooth - too much noise filtering or vibration?

[ZOOMZOOMs]

i tried diferent settings in the noise suppresor .. not seem to help... but!!! this is a 6" hyundai 60-2 wheel, i noted that the missing theet are not "low leveled" with the rest of the cuts in the wheels, this makes difficult to read the last and first tooth (obviuously depend of the trigger edge used) so , in a last desesperate move... i´m trying to install a diy autotune 36-1 8" wheel, that for sure have the right pattern and should work flawlessly with the diy sensor...

hope to have better news in the evening.. till then, thanks for the help and support

Juan

[billr]

I hope the new crank wheel solves your problem, of course, but I have seen some hints (in my experiments) that the "filled" teeth work better with VR.

[ZOOMZOOMs]

2016-06-25_18.04.08.csv

36-1.msq

2016-06-25_18.04.29.msl

ok, so i tried today the new set up, as i said earlier in this post, is a bbc, 36-1 diyautotune trigger wheel, diy autotune hall sensor feed by v.ref, wasted spark logic coils, ngk bkr6 plugs, fresh (again).

now with this trigger wheel, is clearly loosing sync around 4300 rpm, i made one tooth log, and one log, both showing the fail. the noise filter is all off in this logs.

you can see a reason2 lost sync, but i have to admit, that i want ideas about the best way to filter this, because this car makes my guess if i have learned enough!!!

please look at the logs and msq, and keep posting your ideas!!

thanks in advance for your time and help

Juan

[Matt Cramer]

Looks like it's failing to see a real tooth - try a tighter sensor gap and make sure there's no runout problems.