MS3 and EDIS 8

General support questions and announcements for MS3. See also MS3 manuals.

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garrycol
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MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by garrycol »

I am putting on MS3 and Edis 8 on a new Rover 4.6 V8. So I do not want to possibly stuff up the new cam shaft while trying to get the MS3 to run, I am intending to put on the standard 3.5 V8 inlet manifold and carbs and run the engine on the EDIS 8 default ignition setting of 10 degrees BTDC to run the cam shaft in - I need to run the engine at about 2000rpm for 30 mins. Once this is done I will put on the injection manifold, install the MS3 and get the engine sorted.

This is the EDIS 8 wiring diagram I am following.

Image

So two questions.
1. The wiring diagram has the MS3 connected to EDIS 8 at pins 1 and 3 - can someone confirm that if there is nothing connected at these pins EDIS 8 will still operate at its default 10degrees BTDC.

2. Pin 7 on the EDIS 8 module provides shielding for the wiring from the VR sensor and wiring to MS3. I am not sure how this is done - can someone please explain how I provide the required shielding?

Thanks

Garry
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by subwoofer »

Why start a build with EDIS now? Those modules are old as the hills, and not exactly debug friendly. Direct fire gives you more control and makes fault finding a lot easier.
Joachim
1974 Jensen-Healey
1990 VW Caravelle Syncro - running MS3+X
2014 Ford Fiesta EcoBoost
garrycol
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by garrycol »

Because when I first researched this that was what was recommended and I have all the gear.

Cheers

Garry
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by subwoofer »

Interesting. Provided you have the MS3X card you have alle the gear necessary to run direct fire as well (with the possible exception of a few transistors to drive the high-current coils).

Where did the recommendation for EDIS come from?
Joachim
1974 Jensen-Healey
1990 VW Caravelle Syncro - running MS3+X
2014 Ford Fiesta EcoBoost
DaveEFI
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by DaveEFI »

If you're using a carb, EDIS will work stand alone on fixed timing. But do check what the actual timing is with a timing light as a check that you've got the missing tooth in the correct location.
With MS, you'd need the PIP wire connected - without that tach signal MS won't work. If SAW isn't connected it will stay on the limp home setting of 10 BTDC. Or you could do much the same in software.
You could use the same sort of twin screened cable as for the VR sensor. Or indeed co-ax cable which would then have an individual screen for PIP and SAW. Only connect the screen at the EDIS end.

I have EDIS on my RV8. For a near standard road engine, it is just fine. If you need a higher rev limit, and a rev limiter etc you'd need direct drive.

If I were starting afresh, I'd likely go for direct drive. But have no intention of changing from the EDIS module just for the sake of doing so.
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subwoofer
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by subwoofer »

Agreed, no need to throw away the EDIS if it is already in and running, but as I understand it the OP is embarking on a fresh build. And then I don't understand where the recommendation to go EDIS comes from.
Joachim
1974 Jensen-Healey
1990 VW Caravelle Syncro - running MS3+X
2014 Ford Fiesta EcoBoost
garrycol
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by garrycol »

Thanks for the input Dave - basically what I am after.

For the others - thanks for your comments but you are answering something I have not asked. After I have the full system is up an running I might look at not having EDIS8 but for the moment it is going in.

Thanks

Garry
DaveEFI
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by DaveEFI »

subwoofer wrote:Agreed, no need to throw away the EDIS if it is already in and running, but as I understand it the OP is embarking on a fresh build. And then I don't understand where the recommendation to go EDIS comes from.
If you're not good at modifying MS, it makes life simpler. It's also extremely reliable. Also, several in the UK supply complete kits at a good price.
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garrycol
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by garrycol »

Any suggestions on providing shielding to the wires that require shielding - if I run wires clear of the spark plug and other wires I guess it should should not be needed but will the EDIS module be looking for it connected to pin 7.

Thanks

Garry
DaveEFI
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by DaveEFI »

garrycol wrote:Any suggestions on providing shielding to the wires that require shielding - if I run wires clear of the spark plug and other wires I guess it should should not be needed but will the EDIS module be looking for it connected to pin 7.

Thanks

Garry
No. The screen is only connected at one end, so doesn't carry a signal.

The SAW and PIP are separate signals - unlike the 2 wires from a VR sensor. So what I use is two runs of audio co-ax cable - the sort you use to connect say a CD player to an amplifier. But then I make my looms from scratch - not attempt to adapt a generic DB37 pigtail, although you can still do this with that.

You might get away with no screen at all. But when building such things, it's just as easy to use screened cable as any other sort.
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garrycol
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by garrycol »

Yes agree but the wiring diagram does have one end of the shielding connected to pin 7 so if as you suggest I used shielded twin core cable the shielding should be connected at 7????

Cheers

garry
DaveEFI
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by DaveEFI »

garrycol wrote:Yes agree but the wiring diagram does have one end of the shielding connected to pin 7 so if as you suggest I used shielded twin core cable the shielding should be connected at 7????

Cheers

garry
Doesn't matter. Pin7 is merely another ground terminal. But no reason not to use it?
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garrycol
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by garrycol »

Thanks - much appreciated
garrycol
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by garrycol »

I haven't been doing much on this lately but I am about to install the EDIS 8 and coil packs - I know what the Rover V8 firing order is but I cannot seem to find what the EDIS 8 firing order is as I need to connect the right spark plug lead to the right spot on the two coil packs.

Where can I find what order to connect the spark plug leads to the coils on an Edis 8 for an RV8.

Thanks

Garry
DaveEFI
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by DaveEFI »

Here's how I did mine:-

Image
Rover SD1 3.5 EFI
MS2 V3
EDIS
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garrycol
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by garrycol »

Great stuff - thanks :)
garrycol
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by garrycol »

Oh - an afterthought - I take it the numbers on the coils are the engine cylinder numbers and not the edis firing order. So I connect cylinder 1 to your number 1 etc.

Cheers

garry
DaveEFI
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by DaveEFI »

The numbers are cylinder numbers. Many EDIS coils have them marked on them, but not all. On the RV8 cylinder 1 is front nearside (UK). Being wasted spark EDIS only sparks 4 times per engine cycle on an 8 cylinder. The diagram shows which pair of cylinders are the same coil. For reference, the internal EDIS firing order is ABCD.
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garrycol
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by garrycol »

Thanks Dave - I appreciate your help.

Cheers

Garry
garrycol
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Re: MS3 and EDIS 8

Post by garrycol »

The ignition coil packs I have were supplied by a well known parts supplier of MS related bits and according to the package they fit mid 90s Ford Escort, Fiesta and Mondeo. Only the Mondeo was sold here and only in exceptionally small numbers. The issue is that these coil pack have a different spark plug lead arrangement o just about everything in Australia. They have a centre contact pin arrangement rather than the spark plug lead arrangement common of distributor caps and most coil packs used in Australia.

Image

Now on my RV8 I have to either mount the coil packs at the rear of the engine and checking the Mondeo leads at my auto seller they are too short to reach the front of the engine and longer leads with the correct ignition coil end are not sold.

So is any one else using mid 90s Escort, Fiesta or Mondeo coil packs on their RV8 and if so what vehicle leads have you used?

Thanks

Garry
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