Repu won't start.

spokanerxdude · Post by **spokanerxdude** » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:43 am

jsmcortina wrote:Two question:
1. have you checked your timing? Tooth#1 angle is zero, that seems unlikely to be correct.

2. where are your secondary injectors wired? You don't have "Staged Injection" enabled - normally you should.

James

The weather has been bad around here for the past few days and we have the reminents of a typhon coming through our area this afternoon, so i will try and check the timing this morning. I'm running a GM throttle body with 80lbs injectors on a moded stock manifold and a homemade adapter.

spokanerxdude · Post by **spokanerxdude** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:44 pm

Ok got some action out of the pickup today. It starts hard on one rotor and won't stay running but for a few second after I let off the key, even when I'm bumping the throttle, sometimes it will catch just to die again in a few seconds. Oh yes I changed my tooth#1 timing to 5BTDC which is where the timing mark is set.

Arran I did try the 1 2 thing with no results.

arran · Post by **arran** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:37 am

spokanerxdude wrote:Arran, just so you know James "literaly" wrote the book.

Yeah that big red username is hard to miss

Only weird thing is the link:

http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/Meg ... .4-88.html

does not mention anything about specification of the rotary engine capacity, doubling it or not needing to double it.
I spent half an hour looking through the manuals before posting about stuff missing from the manuals, because that usually ends up irritating James, so you'd better be sure.

Wankel.JPG

arran · Post by **arran** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:14 am

spokanerxdude wrote:Ok got some action out of the pickup today. It starts hard on one rotor and won't stay running but for a few second after I let off the key, even when I'm bumping the throttle, sometimes it will catch just to die again in a few seconds. Oh yes I changed my tooth#1 timing to 5BTDC which is where the timing mark is set.

Arran I did try the 1 2 thing with no results.

If I compare the way your engine starts to the way mine starts, you have injector duty on DutyCycle1 and DutyCycle2. My engine only shows a trace against DutyCycle1 when starting. Yes I have staging enabled, but that just means you don't have secondaries to switch on at some point. The duty cycle is shown in the bottom trace window

REPU Crank:

Crank REPU (Medium).JPG

My Crank:

Crank_Arran (Medium).JPG

arran · Post by **arran** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:37 am

How are the injectors wired?
FP to MS3X pin 19 Injector A
RP to MS3X pin 16 Injector B

spokanerxdude · Post by **spokanerxdude** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:26 pm

arran wrote:How are the injectors wired?
FP to MS3X pin 19 Injector A
RP to MS3X pin 16 Injector B

They are wired as you mentioned.

spokanerxdude · Post by **spokanerxdude** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:21 pm

Looking like it is a bad injector. Have some more checking to do, but I'm farly sure thats what it is.

Post by **jsmcortina** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:29 pm

spokanerxdude wrote:Looking like it is a bad injector. Have some more checking to do, but I'm farly sure thats what it is.

Do both injectors work when using the injector test mode?

James

spokanerxdude · Post by **spokanerxdude** » Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:03 am

jsmcortina wrote:
spokanerxdude wrote:Looking like it is a bad injector. Have some more checking to do, but I'm farly sure thats what it is.
Do both injectors work when using the injector test mode?

James

They work just the back one is not putting out much.
One of the nice things about TBI is you can see what the streams look like.

spokanerxdude · Post by **spokanerxdude** » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:48 pm

Well put new injectors in the TBI and no change, so should get the new coils tomorrow. Here is a new data log.

spokanerxdude · Post by **spokanerxdude** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:25 pm

Ok got the Coils all wired and the Injectors changed and it made a difference It almost starts on both rotors now LOL. Been pulling fuel out of the cranking pulse in 5% increments, I'm at 20% now and plugs are still coming up wet so I took 10 points out of the VE map idle area to see if I can get it to go, Here is a new datalog. It was almost starting and now it's doing nothing but flooding. So guess I'll just keep pulling out fuel.

spokanerxdude · Post by **spokanerxdude** » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:14 pm

It Started !!!
Ok it started and runs well at about 13 to 14 AFR then goes way rich and dies. Sound good while it's running. The log I saved is of me trying to keep it running. It probably has something to do with WUE so ill warm it all the way up today and see what I can do.

spokanerxdude · Post by **spokanerxdude** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:10 pm

Nope wasn't WUE. Is anyone alive out there?? Matt, James, Arran???

CRSTune · Post by **CRSTune** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:35 pm

Can you post your current MSQ?

According to the log, the engine is running lean for the most part. At the very end, AFR shows 19:1 when the RPM crashes. It shows 13AFR at the very beginning but quickly becomes erratic, almost like a misfire but I can't be certain.

arran · Post by **arran** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:22 am

I am seeing substantial sync loss. Reason 11: 11 = too few teeth before second trigger
In the areas where you keep throttle constant, the afr is trending lean with fairly constant rpm, but with all the afr spikes it almost looks like you have a misfire.

spokanerxdude · Post by **spokanerxdude** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:26 am

CRSTune wrote:Can you post your current MSQ?

According to the log, the engine is running lean for the most part. At the very end, AFR shows 19:1 when the RPM crashes. It shows 13AFR at the very beginning but quickly becomes erratic, almost like a misfire but I can't be certain.

My MSQ is in my first post. The question I have for you and Arran is; is it the lost sync and 19:1 AFR caused by the misfire or is the misfire caused by the 19:1 AFR. By the way guys (Matt, James, Arran and CRStune to name a few) I Really appreciate all the help everyone has been giving me through this project, Thank you.

Allen

CRSTune · Post by **CRSTune** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:29 am

spokanerxdude wrote:
CRSTune wrote:Can you post your current MSQ?

According to the log, the engine is running lean for the most part. At the very end, AFR shows 19:1 when the RPM crashes. It shows 13AFR at the very beginning but quickly becomes erratic, almost like a misfire but I can't be certain.
My MSQ is in my first post. The question I have for you and Arran is; is it the lost sync and 19:1 AFR caused by the misfire or is the misfire caused by the 19:1 AFR. By the way guys (Matt, James, Arran and CRStune to name a few) I Really appreciate all the help everyone has been giving me through this project, Thank you.

Allen

I always ask, especially considering the length of this thread, I can't be sure that you haven't made a change to your MSQ. No point in looking at the original one if it's not current.

The lost sync count doesn't necessarily increment with the lean spikes. There are a few sections where there is no sync loss count for a few seconds, yet the AFR remains lean or spikes. The sync loss is affecting the way the engine runs but I don't necessarily think it's a direct cause of the lean spikes or misfire.

Work on your VE map. There are many sections where the the AFR in the log goes from lean to rich, directly coinciding with a VE increase. Also, your VE map has a major dip between 800-1200rpm and 50-55kpa load where it drops to 25% VE. Directly next to those cells shows VE values of a flat 40-45%. When I look at a scatter plot of the datalog, plotting RPMxMAP looking at AFR error, there is a noticeable improvement at around 1800rpm. The directly coincides with an increase in your VE map where the VE jumps up from 45% to the 50's.

spokanerxdude · Post by **spokanerxdude** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:29 am

Thanks CRStune I'll smooth out the AE1 map and I'll see if that helps. I did notice the dip in the 3D map just wasn't sure what to do about it. It's 7am right now so I'll have to wait a couple hours before I can start working on the map and testing the changes my header is open and I'm trying to get it running good enough to get it to the muffler shop then I can finish the tune. I'll also get you a MSQ, I don't think I changed anything but you can't be sure with us old guys LOL

here is an MSQ and MSL

spokanerxdude · Post by **spokanerxdude** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:24 pm

Not sure if I'm going the right direction with the #'s in the AE1 table, bigger is richer and smaller is leaner right.

CRSTune · Post by **CRSTune** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:02 pm

That's correct. Higher VE numbers mean more fuel and vice versa.

Can you keep the engine running constantly at all? Possibly by holding the throttle open a few percent? I know that may be a difficult request.

Sync loss increments between cranks (not surprising) but the one section of the log where you're stabbing the throttle shows it increment 5 times in 8 seconds.

There is one section of the log where you had it running and it was around 13.5AFR. One thing I do notice is that as ASE decreases, it leans out before going to 19AFR and dying. It's hard to make a determination while the engine is cold of course since WUE is still active. Harder still as that the AFR reads 10 when it's not running so I have to determine if it's rich or just off. Try increasing fuel in the idle range by 10% and see what it does or increase the ASE taper time. If more ASE simply makes it run longer before dying, it's your VE map that needs the fuel.

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