Injector Issue

[zjohnson1]

I'm trying to set up my first megasquirt (MS3 with MS3X for spark) but there are some problems with the injectors. I'm running 19# ford Yellow top High Impedence injectors in batch fire straight of the MS3 board. This is on a L28 280z so the injectors are paired 1-3 and 4-6.

Everything else in the system appears to be working and I have run all the recommended start up tests to the board using a Jimstim. I am able to get the injectors to manually fire when in test mode (on channels Inj1(i) and Inj2(j)) but not at all when cranking the car. Power to the injectors is good while cranking, just no fire.

I am on the newest firmware for both Mega and Tunerstudio. Anyone have any suggestions? I'm at a wall here. Worst case I'm thinking I can rewire to the MS3X board and just set them up as batch fire that way but it seems like a bit of a hassle when the main board should work just fine

My problem seems very similar to this: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 31&t=44767
but the fix didn't work for me

[billr]

[kaeman]

in addition to what bill said... msq is really handy in helping out, the problem you might be having is no ignition signal, if the injectors are not firing then the main board is not getting a trigger signal, has to have some kind of tach signal ofr the injectors to fire. upload your msq and then see if you are getting a tach signal of some kind. might be a setting in the ignition setup or something really simple.
Good luck.

[zjohnson1]

I'll attach an msq tonight when I get home. It is seeing a tach input, while cranking rpms read 150-280 in tunerstudio. Battery reads a full 12.9V and injectors are getting full power to the 12V input when cranking. I do have spark, if tach input was not present would I still have spark?

[billr]

Generally, if you have spark the MS must be detecting engine rotation, so must be getting some tachin signal. However, I'm sure there are conditions where an improper tachin signal can result in "spark", but no possibility of the engine running. Let's wait until you can post the MSQ and MSL.

[zjohnson1]

Attached should be the MSQ and an MSL of me trying to crank a few times. Not sure I saved them correctly so if there is an issue let me know and I'll try to fix it

[CRSTune]

What kind of ignition coils are you running? You're showing 9ms of dwell during cranking.

[zjohnson1]

GM coils off an LQ9 Yukon

*I just read this:
Maximum Dwell 4.5 milliseconds
Maximum Spark Duration 2.0 milliseconds
Acceleration Compensation 0.5 milliseconds

I will change the spark to reflect this, although that shouldn't affect injection should it? It is still signaling that the motor has 'fired'

[CRSTune]

LQ9 coils autofire when overcharged (usually somewhere above 4-4.5V depending on voltage). Your base cranking dwell is set at 6ms and with the battery correction at 10V, shoots up to 9ms. Try lowering the cranking dwell to around 3ms and see where that takes you.

[CRSTune]

I will change the spark to reflect this, although that shouldn't affect injection should it? It is still signaling that the motor has 'fired'

You have good RPM signal with no sync loss. The average is 200rpm.
Injector PW is showing 4ms while cranking.
Commanded timing is 10deg BTDC.

[Matt Cramer]

RPM looks OK, not perfect, but it's hard to get perfect sync while cranking. But the temperature sensor readings both look a little suspect (the MAT reading may be OK if you're in a garage, CLT is definitely bogus). Get the temperature sensors sorted out, then check the timing.

[zjohnson1]

Car is in a garage right now so that may be okay, coolant is open right now too, radiator is out so I can crank and check timing with a light. I may have a bad sensor though, it may be original from 1976 and wouldn't hurt to replace regardless. I'll change my spark settings over lunch and report back

[zjohnson1]

Coolant temp sensor was unplugged. Brain fart last night while I was messing with things... Readings look better now that it's plugged in, baseline is around 80*. Changed my spark settings as recommended and still a no go

Attached are data sheets

[CRSTune]

How do you have the coils wired up? Are they wired in firing order?

What firing order are you using? You have the order configured in the software as 1-6-2-5-3-4 (incorrect) as opposed to 1-5-3-6-2-4 (correct). It doesn't matter so much in the software but does matter if you physically wired the coils that way.

Do you have the coils paired up to outputs A, B, and C or are they wired individually to A through F? If it's the latter, you need to select "Wasted COP" as your "Number of Coils" setting.

[zjohnson1]

Good catch. Coils are wired in pairs: 1-6, 2-5, 3-4 on channels A, B, & C. I changed the sequencing to reflect the 1-5-3-6-2-4 firing order. Sounds like it's firing stronger but still no fuel

[CRSTune]

Good catch. Coils are wired in pairs: 1-6, 2-5, 3-4 on channels A, B, & C. I changed the sequencing to reflect the 1-5-3-6-2-4 firing order. Sounds like it's firing stronger but still no fuel

So it's wired like this?:
A: 1-6
B: 2-5
C: 3-4

[zjohnson1]

So it's wired like this?:
A: 1-6
B: 2-5
C: 3-4

Correct

[CRSTune]

Alright, that's good.

I double checked the port status in the logs to make sure the ECU is actually commanding everything as intended. I can confirm that the ECU is commanding the fuel pump to turn on and both the coils and injectors to fire.

I can see in the log that you're messing with the throttle. It may just be a simple matter of commanding more cranking fuel to get it to catch.

When you say it has no fuel, are you confirming that there is physically no fuel being injected?

Lastly, I took another look at that picture of your coils and they don't appear to be the truck coils that auto spark. As far as I know, the other (non-heat sink) LS coils relieve stored charge internally. It's still not a good thing to over charge the coils but at least auto spark is not an issue.

[zjohnson1]

No fuel at all. Can't hear injectors firing (no clicking when listening with a long screw driver). My plugs are bone dry too. If I have someone spray starting fluid steady in the manifold it will idle fine so it seems the fuel is the only issue. I'll try cranking up the supply for cranking and report back.

The weird thing is when I run test mode on the injectors I can get them to fire. If I manually power the fuel pump to hold pressure and run a few injector test fires it will crank, just not run since injectors won't work out of test mode

[CRSTune]

Can you turn on the fuel pump in test mode?

Is the fuel pump on during cranking?

You may also have luck reloading the firmware onto the unit.