semi-sequential wont go over 1600rpm. skip to p2

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Re: sequential no start on GM. 3.57 / 1.5.0 / MS3X

Postby TheMU47 » Fri May 19, 2017 11:37 am

new logs
Attachments
2017-05-19_14.35.04.msl
(62.37 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
2017-05-19_11.09.56.csv
(23.71 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
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Re: sequential no start on GM. 3.57 / 1.5.0 / MS3X

Postby TheMU47 » Fri May 19, 2017 11:43 am

thanks for your help so far billr. I appreciate it.

TPS is wired to 5V ref. IAT is not. I have that wired to main board IAT SIG and the other end to a shared ground with CLT ground. I'll check the sensor return circuit from IAT, CLT and TPS.

found CLT was on correct sensor return circuit, but IAT and TPS were on a looky loo. Now all 3 sensors using return circuit SNSR RET.
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Re: sequential no start on GM. 3.57 / 1.5.0 / MS3X

Postby billr » Fri May 19, 2017 1:58 pm

Reverse the wires to your (VR) CKP sensor and post a new tooth log.
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Re: sequential no start on GM. 3.57 / 1.5.0 / MS3X

Postby TheMU47 » Fri May 19, 2017 3:02 pm

swapped the two wires to the crank sensor.
Attachments
2017-05-19_18.00.20.msl
(73.09 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
2017-05-19_18.01.12.csv
(24.26 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
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Re: sequential no start on GM. 3.57 / 1.5.0 / MS3X

Postby billr » Fri May 19, 2017 7:52 pm

That tooth log looks good now. Are you getting sparking and injector pulses now? Do you have a timing light now? I always suggest using a simple light, not one of those dial-back ones; they seem to work more reliably.
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Re: sequential no start on GM. 3.57 / 1.5.0 / MS3X

Postby TheMU47 » Sat May 20, 2017 10:55 am

starts and runs. Thanks a lot billr. you've really made my day/week
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Re: sequential no start on GM. 3.57 / 1.5.0 / MS3X

Postby billr » Sat May 20, 2017 11:01 am

Post a recent MSQ and MSL, we may be able to offer beneficial suggestions on tuning it.
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Re: sequential no start on GM. 3.57 / 1.5.0 / MS3X

Postby TheMU47 » Sun May 21, 2017 7:39 pm

billr wrote:Post a recent MSQ and MSL, we may be able to offer beneficial suggestions on tuning it.


cool. I'll do that tomorrow. thanks.
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Re: sequential no start on GM. 3.57 / 1.5.0 / MS3X

Postby TheMU47 » Tue May 23, 2017 12:54 pm

a few files.
1st - hard to start
2nd - cold running
3rd - warm running
Attachments
2017-05-23_15.39.30.msl
hard start
(113.31 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
2017-05-23_15.41.07.msl
cold - running
(474.31 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
2017-05-23_15.49.03.msl
warm - running
(201.09 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
Build 'em, Break 'em, Build 'em again.
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Re: sequential no start on GM. 3.57 / 1.5.0 / MS3X

Postby TheMU47 » Tue May 23, 2017 12:56 pm

here's the current tune.



hey thanks for looking. I really like that this community helps out like this.
Attachments
MU4752317.msq
the current tune
(284.71 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
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Re: sequential no start on GM. 3.57 / 1.5.0 / MS3X

Postby TheMU47 » Tue May 23, 2017 2:03 pm

I've noticed that my oxygen sensor is out of range during autotune. I have a very free flowing exhaust. during the running msq's I have a restricter in the pipe with a 3/4" opening to try and get a stable O2. didn't seem to work out as I had hoped. Also, the charger was hooked up again. Like I said, its tough to get started right now.
the joys of custom builds. LOL
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Re: sequential no start on GM. 3.57 / 1.5.0 / MS3X

Postby billr » Tue May 23, 2017 5:29 pm

First, turn off the EGO control and ignore AFR readings from the NB sensor. NB sensors are near-useless for tuning. I don't know if the 14point7 "Spartans" are shipping now, but that's what I suggest for a WB; they are in the $100-150 range.

You have constant sync loss when cold, but not when hot. That needs to be fixed, but it's not at all clear to me what is going on there. I'll have to go back and study this thread again later.

Your "req_fuel" is very low, so I gotta ask: Have you flowed them for rate and dead-time? That becomes quite critical when "req_fuel" values get low. Are yours high-Z injectors (how many ohms?)?

It looks like this cranks at about 200 rpm, so lower the cranking threshold to about 250 rpm (presently 700). This will keep idle fueling and spark timing from dropping into "cranking" settings until rpm drops clear down to 250.

I see you have no IAC, and MAP drops noticeably during cranking. I would open up the idle stop-screw on the throttle to give it some more air while cranking.

The cranking pulse is rather skimpy, I would make it a straight line between the present 10F and 180F values, as a first guess.

The spark table is rather odd, but let's wait on that until the sync-loss issue is gone and the injector characteristics are verified.

PS: you still don't have a timing light?
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Re: sequential no start on GM. 3.57 / 1.5.0 / MS3X

Postby TheMU47 » Wed May 24, 2017 8:20 am

I have a wideband O2, an Innovate LC2. Had the setting wrong. I'm seeing IAT here on dash mode. It's usually around 90- 100 degrees out here. I also use phenolic spacers, so intake temps don't get as hot when warmed up. I have not flowed the injectors. Siemens Deka 83#/hr high impedance. I used the fuel calculator for required fuel. 122 ci, 4 cyl. I will have a timing light shortly. Currently no income, so spending money is tough right now. Made the other changes recommended. I did switch to wide band instead of turning off a/f Ego. If it should be off, I'll switch it off. I'd like to see what it does reading the wideband.
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Re: sequential no start on GM. 3.57 / 1.5.0 / MS3X

Postby TheMU47 » Thu May 25, 2017 2:13 pm

latest log - warm.
Attachments
2017-05-25_17.13.54.msl
(109.46 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
Build 'em, Break 'em, Build 'em again.
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TheMU47
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Re: sequential no start on GM. 3.57 / 1.5.0 / MS3X

Postby TheMU47 » Fri May 26, 2017 12:59 pm

Found my L terminal wire was not getting power. Fixed the problem, Alternator now working normally.
Found thermostat stuck causing hotspot by sensor. replaced thermostat - working normally.
Changed setting to PID to see wideband O2 - seems to be a good move so far.
Idle is better when cold, still too high ~1600 (and going lean) when warm. Tip in goes lean right away. still working on it. running autotune as well.

I have never tried tuning. I can build 'em all day. This is new to me. It's tedious, but rewarding. Thanks for your help so far.
Build 'em, Break 'em, Build 'em again.
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Location: Tampa Bay, Fl

Re: semi-sequential wont go over 1600rpm. skip to p2

Postby TheMU47 » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:22 am

Changed the heading to this thread. Running semi-sequential.

I'm stuck on the loss of signal. I have turned the POT's CCW for VR crank. Correct pins jumped.
Vehicle will not go over 1600 RPM without backfire and going lean.

need some help. Thanks.
I could also use some help in deciphering what data I'm looking at. It doesn't make much sense to me, and I'd like it to.
Attachments
2017-06-02_14.13.33.msl
(239.42 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
MU476217.msq
(284.86 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
Build 'em, Break 'em, Build 'em again.
turbo LSJ swapped S-10
TheMU47
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Posts: 33
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 3:53 pm
Location: Tampa Bay, Fl

Re: semi-sequential wont go over 1600rpm. skip to p2

Postby billr » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:15 pm

Do you have a timing light yet? Verifying that the crank position is known correctly is essential, you are just wasting fuel until that is done.

What fuel are you using?

Turn off the AE/DE for now (set all the thresholds there to maximum).
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Re: semi-sequential wont go over 1600rpm. skip to p2

Postby TheMU47 » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:26 pm

No, still don't have a timing light that'll pick up the COP. No other setting has gotten it to start and idle, so I doubt I'm that far off. I was thinking about trying one of those conditioning boards from jbperf.com. Might clean up the signal. A friend has used MS and he had a similar issue that the conditioner corrected.

I'm using 93 octane.
Build 'em, Break 'em, Build 'em again.
turbo LSJ swapped S-10
TheMU47
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Location: Tampa Bay, Fl

Re: semi-sequential wont go over 1600rpm. skip to p2

Postby billr » Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:37 pm

Any timing light can be used on COP, just mount the coil nearby and connect it to the plug with a short piece of wire. No excuses are acceptable there, checking that basic input is too crucial for any EFI system to work properly.

I'm trying to check your "req_fuel" setting, and the stoic has been moving around in that calc. What type of fuel (gasoline, ethanol, methanol, E85, ...), octane rating is meaning less to determine the stoic ratio.

You are talking about a "conditioner board" for the CKP input? It shouldn't be necessary. Even if it did help, needing it would indicate something is very marginal in the CKP signal; likely to bite you again later.
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Re: semi-sequential wont go over 1600rpm. skip to p2

Postby TheMU47 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:34 am

I now have a timing light.

Gas. 93 octane
Build 'em, Break 'em, Build 'em again.
turbo LSJ swapped S-10
TheMU47
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Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 3:53 pm
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