Weird issue

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AlanJ
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Weird issue

Post by AlanJ »

Quick background.

1) issues with installing mega-squirt, could not rev past 2500RPM. - Solved, Used wide-band for tuning.
2) alternator control kept stopping and performing erratic results. - Solved, Alternator fried both injector sircuts and they have been replaced. outputs not currently use.


MS3X on ms 3.0 mainboard
92 dodge Dakota, Stock 100%
diy autotune crank trigger and crank sensor. Stock cam sensor.
19# or 15# multiport injectors. (No one knows what they actually are other than "Stock Size") high z running on msx outs
spark running from MSX to the fly-back transistor used on the mainboard. (using MS3X spark output)
wideband o2
all other stock sensors.
stock speed sensor.


Issue, On constant throttle and constant RPM the engine will suddenly go full lean and when i move the pedal in either direction for a split second it fixes the issue for 5 or 6 seconds. the log shows no rich spikes. fuel pressure constant 48 psi. No clue whats causing it. no conditions change that i'm aware of for this to happen. No issues while the rpms change, like acceleration passing the same spot. They have been confirmed as rich misfires based on spark plug check.

please forgive the ve table, i was trying a bunch of stuff and just made the snapshot with the exact tune at the time.

Ideas/Suggestions?
Last edited by AlanJ on Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
92 Dakota Work in progress (ms3x)
AlanJ
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Re: Weird issue

Post by AlanJ »

Bump
92 Dakota Work in progress (ms3x)
billr
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Re: Weird issue

Post by billr »

Post the MSL, not a ZIP; some of us don't bother with anything other than the native MSQ/MSL files.
AlanJ
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Re: Weird issue

Post by AlanJ »

Trimmed more to make file size. The engine runs fine and its as if the fuel pump just shuts off. but its rich misfires.....
92 Dakota Work in progress (ms3x)
billr
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Re: Weird issue

Post by billr »

Alas, I don't have the INI file needed to open your MSQ. I assume you are concerned about what's going on at about 838 sec. in the log? Do you have a wide-band O2 sensor, or just narrow-band?
kjones6039
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Re: Weird issue

Post by kjones6039 »

billr wrote:Alas, I don't have the INI file needed to open your MSQ. I assume you are concerned about what's going on at about 838 sec. in the log? Do you have a wide-band O2 sensor, or just narrow-band?
Bill,

I think he said he is using a WB in his first post.

Ken
1979 Corvette - 383 CID SBC w/ Holley Pro-Jection 900 CFM TBI, 4-85 lb lo-z injectors & Walbro 255 pump
MS2 v3 w/extra 3.4.2 Release
36-1, Delphi LS2/7 coils in wasted spark, driven by v2.0 logic board from JBPerformance
Spartan Lambda Sensor from 14point7
TinyIOX from JBPerformance
billr
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Re: Weird issue

Post by billr »

Yeah, I overlooked that. The AFR reading in the log was so "binary" that I got thinking it might be a NB.
AlanJ
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Re: Weird issue

Post by AlanJ »

Yes that is my problem. I think it might be mechanical because of the no reason jump to the rich misfires. I was looking at tempature and other variables. I constantly have a incorrect reading from the wideband at high loads. I have verified I have no exhaust leaks that I can find. Ms isn't changing any fueling times or pulse widths....

No matter how much fuel I add, at ligh loads and 3000 rpm the richest I can get to is 15:1 anything more does not change the reading from the wideband but will make it smoke black. What am I missing? Too late timing, incomplete burn of some sort. One injector pumping more than another....

Ideas please....
92 Dakota Work in progress (ms3x)
billr
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Re: Weird issue

Post by billr »

I wish I could try further help, but can't open the MSQ; don't have the INI.
jsmcortina
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Re: Weird issue

Post by jsmcortina »

billr wrote:I wish I could try further help, but can't open the MSQ; don't have the INI.
Doesn't TunerStudio find it for you? It should do.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
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Raymond_B
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Re: Weird issue

Post by Raymond_B »

jsmcortina wrote:
billr wrote:I wish I could try further help, but can't open the MSQ; don't have the INI.
Doesn't TunerStudio find it for you? It should do.

James
This is what I get when trying to open the tune.

Image
1995 Ford Lightning. Dart based 427 Windsor, Novi 2000, full sequential, E-85, etc. MS3X/v3.57
http://www.buildpics.org/
billr
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Re: Weird issue

Post by billr »

Same message for me. Occasionally I will get an offer to download a needed INI from EFI Analytics, but not always.
jsmcortina
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Re: Weird issue

Post by jsmcortina »

billr wrote:Same message for me. Occasionally I will get an offer to download a needed INI from EFI Analytics, but not always.
Please report this with the screenshot on the TunerStudio sub-forum.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
billr
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Re: Weird issue

Post by billr »

OK, I finally am able to open the MSQ. The only thing obvious to me is that the VE is quite low, and you are uncertain as to the flow-rate for the injectors. I would flow the injectors, for rate at least, and richen the VE table to more like the example project, or try the VE table generator. Flowing the injectors is pretty easy, and I would do that for each injector if the condition of them is unknown as well as their rate and DT. Since even the large (19#) rate possibility will restrict you to about 5000 rpm, you may want to not bother with these injectors and step up to new ones right now.
Raymond_B
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Re: Weird issue

Post by Raymond_B »

I do not know anywhere near as much as the other guys here, but I have a few questions.

What engine do you have? Is it a 3.9?

Is this your cam sensor?
Image

If so should you be using "dual wheel with missing tooth"?

Also why is Barometric Correction set to Initial MAP reading? The tool-tip says that is not recommended.

Image

Lastly, why are you using Engine States? I thought this was a relatively new feature, and for a novice I'd turn it off. For the record I am a big time novice :)
1995 Ford Lightning. Dart based 427 Windsor, Novi 2000, full sequential, E-85, etc. MS3X/v3.57
http://www.buildpics.org/
billr
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Re: Weird issue

Post by billr »

What I saw when I finally got the MSQ to open is that "dual wheel with missing tooth" is set; I'm not sure what your (Ray_B) are referring to there. Since this is single-coil with 36-1 CKP wheel, I would use simple "single toothed wheel", get any possible CMP issues out of the mix, for now anyway.

"Engine states" may be a relatively new feature, but I don't think those settings can really be considered "optional". Idle, in particular, will be very difficult to get acceptable unless the states correctly define what conditions define idle for you.

Baro? Yeah there is lots of discussion about how to use that. If you are at sea-level all the time turn it off, but if you are at "high" altitude (2500 ft and above?) it may be better to use "use initial" if you have only one sensor.
Raymond_B
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Re: Weird issue

Post by Raymond_B »

I was asking why he had the trigger wheel set that way, but I wanted to confirm what cam sensor he had after I was reading the manual.


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1995 Ford Lightning. Dart based 427 Windsor, Novi 2000, full sequential, E-85, etc. MS3X/v3.57
http://www.buildpics.org/
billr
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Re: Weird issue

Post by billr »

Good, at least the MSQ is reading the same for both of us, now that we can open it.
AlanJ
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Re: Weird issue

Post by AlanJ »

Finally found the issue. Injector c on the expansion board is flakey. It does shut off at odd times, it finally gave up entirely. I'm trying to source replacements for the driver chip. Mossfet I believe.... Anyways I ordered 10 of the same ones they should be here shortly....

One thing I have noticed is the ms sees 22+ volts while in the car but reads correct on the bench. I have disconnected the alternator and still receive incorrect readings. I verified with a voltmeter as well and it never goes over 14.9 but ms sees 22. I think more circuits are blown out or functioning incorrectly. I had an issue a while back about blown main board transistors but thought I replaced them all.

Tonight I will have to go through and run some tests....
Where do I start and what should I look at for the incorrect voltage readings?

Mat and CLT sensors read fine.
92 Dakota Work in progress (ms3x)
Raymond_B
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Re: Weird issue

Post by Raymond_B »

After you get your mechanical issues figured out you need to address the items above...
1995 Ford Lightning. Dart based 427 Windsor, Novi 2000, full sequential, E-85, etc. MS3X/v3.57
http://www.buildpics.org/
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