Timing error ProBoss GT40 boat engine, Ford 351 TFI

[Peter6000]

I’m Mega-squirting a Boat Motor Pro Boss GT40 it’s a ford 351W 5.8l with GT40 heads.
The original setup is a TFI with Signature PIP, CCD and distributor
I use an MS3x 1.4.1. still have the distributer in place.
This is my first Megasquirt setup.

My problem is that the timing for Cylinder 3 is of it’s to early (see picture)
This happens right after the PIP signature (shorter puls)
The engine runs a little rough. It does not do this with the original ECU.

Ign MX3 output Cy3 error.jpg

Settings.jpg

my tune

TFI_batch fire_distributor_rev3.msq

The trigger log shows the Signature PIP and is stable sorry forgot to log or take a pic.
I’m pretty sure R56 it tuned correctly.
I attached picture of ignition setup.
I can set the Ignition advance and it matches the output when I check it with a timing light.
If I move it up and down it follows the setting of the MS3.

Thanks for your help in advance
Peter

[Matt Cramer]

Try changing ignition input capture to falling edge and re-adjusting the trigger angle.

[Peter6000]

Try changing ignition input capture to falling edge and re-adjusting the trigger angle.

Matt,
thanks for the quick response, I started out with falling edge but could never get the Ignition advance to match up with the actual setting in tuner studio.
Meaning I used trigger wizard to set the advance. I can get it to match in 2 different angles around 40 and 60 degree if I remember right.
I had to set it a couple of times, after turning off the unit it moved and I had to do it again, but finally got it.
Then when I changed the software to different ignition advance its acting all strange for example i set it to 12 deg it moves about 0.5 deg then set it 15 and it moves 30 deg.
When I switch to rising edge it works normal and software setting matches actual advance. But I get the incorrect timing on the ignition following the signature.
So I tried it again today with the same results. Unfortunately the Jim Stim does not offer Signature PIP would all be easier on the bench.

My plan is to go full sequential and COP anyway and my initial plan was to copy the existing setup as close as possible to have a starting point.
At this point I might better of getting a trigger wheel instead of dealing with the Ford TFI.

thanks Peter

[Matt Cramer]

Falling edge needs a trigger angle in the 0-15 degree range. You may need some minor adjustment to the distributor to get this range.

[Peter6000]

Falling edge needs a trigger angle in the 0-15 degree range. You may need some minor adjustment to the distributor to get this range.

thanks Matt,
maybe I just missed the soft spot i give it another try on the weekend.

I had a hard time finding information about TFI with signature PIP and CCD and found this document just in case somebody has similar issues.

ford-Ignition-tfi-edit.doc

I forgot where I found it but thanks to the kind person that posted it in the first place.

Further I'm proceeding with the trigger wheel and that's where the next problem starts.
I put the question in a new post
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 31&t=67340

thanks Peter

[Peter6000]

Problem fixed,
I was not able to get the Ford signature PIP to work, I think i tried everything. I decided to install a 36-1 wheel and a VW sensor, now its working great. I used a toothed wheel from a 5.0 Ford Explorer to make it happen. I got a complete harmonic balancer from eBay and pulled of the toothed wheel, came off easy. And installed it between the balancer and pulleys.
I also converted the PIP to generate the crank pulese (cut of 7 of the 8 teeth) now get a single pulse at TDC. This allowed me to use sequential fuel and later COP.
The results are incredible my idle has never been this smooth.

20171018_170434.jpg (376.07 KiB) Viewed 927 times

[wes kiser]

Signiture PIP was fundamentally broken prior to 1.5 fw. Provided you have an OE distributor, it absolutely works, and is reliable with 1.5fw.

That being said, your scope trace is what happens when you trigger on the wrong edge (or you have one of several aftermarket distributors that doesn't work). Ignition was never the piece that was broken with signature PIP, it was the tooth #1 ID.

Since you now have a high res crank wheel, obviously no need to go back.

[Peter6000]

Signiture PIP was fundamentally broken prior to 1.5 fw. Provided you have an OE distributor, it absolutely works, and is reliable with 1.5fw.

That being said, your scope trace is what happens when you trigger on the wrong edge (or you have one of several aftermarket distributors that doesn't work). Ignition was never the piece that was broken with signature PIP, it was the tooth #1 ID.

Since you now have a high res crank wheel, obviously no need to go back.

You may right considering that i wanted to go to seq. fuel and COP i decided quickly to go with a thoothed wheel. Howefer I tried rising and falling edge non of the worked correctly. But I cant be sure if my TFI or Distributer is OEM or not.