Pre-Start Sanity Check MS3X

[okubricko]

Hey there all, I hoping there are some keen eyes out there that can review my setup and tell me if I have anything that looks funky or might give me issues starting.

I have a four cylinder engine, 1-4-3-2. The goal is to have it sequential, but for now I just want to get it running with wasted spark. That being said, I am running Coil On Plug, 36-1 crank trigger, MS3X, For the first start, I'm running 7.5º BTDC fixed timing. (I still need to verify that the timing is correct) I have run the tooth logger and composite logger and I feel they both look great. Have included those for review. All sensors work and have been calibrated. (CLT, IAT, TPS, Wideband O2, Flex Fuel). All fuel injectors and coils fire and are matched up for each cylinder per firing order and fuel pressure is set to 43.5 psi.

Is there anything I'm overlooking or needs to be adjusted with my tune?? Any and all help will be appreciated.

Attachments:

Betty Batch.msq

(272.29 KiB) Downloaded 21 times

Data Log - 1.5.1 - First Crank.msl

(127.78 KiB) Downloaded 22 times

Thanks in Advance!!!

[okubricko]

I thought I would add the tooth log and composite log as well.

Tooth Log - 1.5.1 - First Crank.csv

(23.73 KiB) Downloaded 24 times

Comp Log - 1.5.1 - First Crank.csv

(21.16 KiB) Downloaded 22 times

Also, I didn't mention it in the first post but I'm running version 1.5.1 of the firmware.

[billr]

Just checking... you have the spark outputs hard-wired correctly? A=>1, B=>4, C=>3, D=>2

[okubricko]

Billr,

That's correct the way I wired the injector and coils are A=>1, B=>4, C=>3, D=>2.

[grom_e30]

what engine is this? it seems an odd firing order??

[okubricko]

Volkswagen Air Cooled - 1600 Dual Port

[okubricko]

I could use some help with my build. Any and all help would be appreciated.

composite log - 4 dec.png (88.03 KiB) Viewed 607 times

tooth log - 4 Dec.png (65.6 KiB) Viewed 607 times

When I turn the key to the run position the fuel pump turns on for the prescribed two seconds and then stops as it should. But I have a problem with the fuel relay. When I turn the engine over the fuel relay cycles on and off. On the fuel relay does this, not the main relay. If you look at the composite log picture you can see the pretty regular gaps when it turns on and off. The tooth log is just a mess. I'm at a total loss here.

What would cause the fuel relay to cycle on and off while cranking? Thanks!!

Current MSQ (Betty - 4 Dec) attached >>

Betty 4 Dec.msq

(272.3 KiB) Downloaded 18 times

[MegaMicra]

The fuel pump output will turn off when it loses sync and doesn't see any rpm so that's to be expected. You really need to verify and set your timing first. I'll have a look at some of your logs when I get chance.

Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk

[MegaMicra]

OK. I've had a quick look and your tps is reading -0.4ish and is extremely noisy in the logs. I'm no expert and am still learning myself. So, a lot of your msq settings seem to be straight out of the box, aside from your ignition settings. You could do with checking the grounds on your install to stop that noise. Also as I said previously. Sort the timing out.

Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk

[okubricko]

Right now, I'm just trying to get it to fire and idle.

I guess I had a chicken and egg thing going on. I was thinking that the fuel relay dropping out was causing the noise in the signal, what you're saying is that the noise is causing the fuel relay to drop out?? I will recheck my crank trigger wiring tonight. I'll re calibrate the TPS as well.

[vw_chuck]

What are you using for a cam and crank sensor? Hall effect or VR?

[okubricko]

My crank sensor is VR and cam sensor is Hall.

[LAV1000]

First concentrate on cranksignal.
Toothlog is a mess, are you using resistor sparkplugs ?
How much is battery voltage dropping when starting ?

[vw_chuck]

Maybe rethink that VR sensor. I run the same setup on my bug with MS3X and COP. Running sequential and run Hall Effect on everything 36-1 wheel. Fired right up on first try. I was expecting to see some sync issues but I had NONE. Just turn the key and go. It seems the VR either works or doesn't and it takes and act of god to get it working with all these bandaids like resistors and such.

[billr]

Your choice on VR or Hall, of course; but don't get scared away from VR because some people don't understand how to trouble-shoot. VR is a very mature and reliable technology and has some advantages over Hall. Likewise, Hall has some advantages over VR.

The last tooth-log I see was posted 11/25 and it looks fine. Then, there is the recent screen-shot that is crappy. What has changed? I thought the first was taken during cranking, on the real engine. Was it actually taken using a Stim?

Post a full set of current MSQ, MSL, and tooth-log.

[okubricko]

That has been my issue. There is no consistency with my tooth log. I can do one and everything looks great and then I try to set the timing and it's all over the place. The I go and check the tooth logs and they are noisy. The log posted on 11/25 was from my engine, it showed about three seconds of cranking, what I didn't realize it is was getting unstable after that. I am going to spend some time today (hopefully, def tomorrow) with the wiring and routing. I may knock it down to just the sensor wire and nothing else, get a good signal and then keep adding sensors, injectors, coils etc.

vw_chuck - What Hall sensor are you using? I was looking at the one from DIYAutoTune.

It's cold here in Ohio now so sliding under the car on the ground gets less and less desirable but I'm committed to figuring this out!

[okubricko]

I think I have it figured out. I wanted to look at the routing of the cable to see if it was possibly getting an interference with anything. As I was moving the cable I looked at the connector. My crank trigger came with a connector and I made the connector for the cable the runs to the MS3X. It looked like the wire had broken right at the end of the crimp. As far as I can tell, when the engine moved as the starter kicked it over the frayed wires would touch and then not touch, giving a signal and then not. Something makes sense to me now. Previously I had removed the spark plugs so the engine didn't have to work so hard when I thought I could get it timed. My tooth logs were good with the plugs out. When the plugs went back in the logs went wonky again. I'm guessing that with the plugs out the engine had very little movement and the wires stayed connected. I removed the connector altogether and soldered the wires. Below is the result.

Tooth Log - 9 Dec.JPG (67.34 KiB) Viewed 479 times

It looks like I might have some compression issues in two of the cylinders. I think I haven't tightened the plugs enough, it's super tight and I need a triple jointed elbow to get in there. I feel I'm making progress.

[jsmcortina]

That tooth log is looking good. You are correct to investigate the compression query.

James

[okubricko]

This should be the last thing I need to clarify before I am actually able to crank her over for real. My timing is off by a few degrees and I need to adjust the #1 Tooth Angle to compensate. I think the timing is retarded right now and I need to decrease the #1 Tooth Angle in Tunerstudio by about 1.7º. See pic.

First Timing.jpg (93.77 KiB) Viewed 473 times

Thanks for everyone's input. Couldn't have gotten this far without all the help. Great community here.

[billr]

Is there a question there? What do you need to "clarify"?