cam sensorengine

[flatbill]

A number of years ago I was running an MS2 TBI system on my '56 Desoto motor. I have upgraded the MS2 to a MS3X. I have the jimstim on and also the test board for the sequential outputs. I will be using a FAST dual sync distributor that has hall effect sensors. I have the computor talking to the MS3 and am trying to inut the settings to get on to tune for my combination.

I get to the engine and sequential settings page as shown in the attachment and then I get the error as seen in the other attachment.

"cannot run sequential without knowing engine phase (E.G. a cam sensor)

What I cannot find is any info on how to specify a cam sensor or what "engine phasing" is. I have done many searches on the forums and manuals but can't find anything to help me.

It will not burn the engine settings page to store them.

Thanks for any help you can give. BIll

[billr]

Post the MSQ, screen-shots are of limited use. "Engine phase" refers to whether a piston in a 4-stroke engine coming up on TDC is on the compression stroke or the exhaust stroke. I'm not familiar with that particular dizzy, maybe it would help if you posted the P/N for it, or photos of the sensors and trigger wheel.

[flatbill]

I hope that I was successful loading the msq. The distributor is a FAST dual sync type. It has the crank and cam sensors in it. The FAST part number is 305011. This is a link to the website product info. http://www.fuelairspark.com/fas/chrysle ... butorhtml/ .

It is supposed to have hall effect sensors.

As shown in my original post I get the error and have not been able to clear it to continue loading a setup.

I had thought that since it will not let me save the tune that there would not be anything of interest in it. Note this is my old MS2 with the MS3X upgrade. I am trying to get it set up on the bench before I do the real install on my motor.

Thanks to anyone who can give me some hints on how to proceed. Bill

[jsmcortina]

I'm not sure why you say you can't do anything else or save your tune?
Nothing should stop you doing "Save Tune As" and nothing will stop you opening up the Ignition Settings -> Ignition Options / Wheel decoder to configure what's needed.

James

[flatbill]

Sorry, What I meant was that it would not let me burn the selected settings. It puts up the error message as shown in my first post. Bill

[billr]

Want a guess? Change from "basic trigger" to "toothed wheel", "dual wheel". Set number of crank teeth to 4.

[flatbill]

Good guess. It cleared the error message! Still no luck on getting the Tunerstudio to work. Getting a not rpm synched red light on the bottom of the dashboard. Before the rpm was pegged at 9k. Now reads zero. I tried jumping from the second trigger on the jimstim to the cam pin on the ms3x jimstim. No good either.

attached is the latest msq. Thanks, BIll

[billr]

You are using a JimStim for the CKP input? Want another guess? Set the DIP switches on the JimStim with #2 on and all others off; that will be the 4/1 setting. You will need to use the "2nd sync" input. Do you understand the pull-up jumpers and such on the JimStim? Oh, and do check that the processor chip is installed correctly. If any doubts about any of this, post some pictures.

[flatbill]

I am not sure what the ckp input is and have not been able to find it in a search. But, I have it running on the jimstim now. Here is the setup I have on the jimstim.

switch 2 on all others off
2 pullup jumpers on the 2x3 jumper block both on the right side,12v
jumper on primary tach jumper location
jumper wire from 2nd trigger to cam pin on jimstimx
jumper wire from 5 volt pin on jimstim below 10 pin header to 5 volt pin on jimstimx

the fuellpump led is lit

on the jimstimx
the 8 injector leds are running
The spk.a led is lit
the tach0 led is lit

Also the chip on the jimstim has 2 white dots on it.

Tuner studio seems to be working right except the rpm is cutting off right about at 3000 rpm. I have looked at the rpm limiter and it was set to 6000rpm normal all other settings off. Am I doing something wrong to get the cutoff at 1/2 of the setting? I tried raising the limit to 9000 and it didn't change anything.

I am thinking, maybe completely wrong, that maybe it has to do with the 4/1 wheel setting on the 8 cylinder engine. I can see that there will be 4 pulses per crank rotation but I am not sure how the MS uses the input.

When I originally built this for the TBI setup I set it up for a VR sensor in a Mopar distributor. Would this mod on the MS board cause a problem when I go to the hall effect FAST distributor. I suppose that the distributor will give 8 pulses per distributor rotation (per 2 crank rotations). Also the distributor cam sensor should give 2 pulses per distributor rotation (one pulse per crank rotation).

Thanks again for your help. I have attached my latest msq.

Bill

[billr]

"CKP" = Crankshaft Position (tachin, mainboard DB37 pin 24) "CMP" = Camshaft Position

If you are getting rpm readings in TS and no sync-loss, than forget about JimStim jumpers and the chip on it; those are almost certainly OK.

No comment yet on the rpm limit, I took the easy stuff first!

PS: an MSL now that you have it responding to TS might help.

[flatbill]

I am attaching what I think is a MSL file. This is with my computer running TS and Megalog viewer HD. I moved the jimstim pots around to show the cutoff at about 3000 rpm and the other pots. I really appreciate the help to me. Making progess is very satisfying. Thanks, Bill

[billr]

There is massive sync-loss in that log. I'll have to peek at what "reason 11" means. Since you have the JimStim, I would set it and TS for 36-1 to verify the MS and Stim are OK; that this is *just* a settings issue. A picture of the Stim might still be beneficial.

[billr]

Also post a tooth-log and comp log taken with the same config that produced that last MSL.

[flatbill]

I am hoping that I have attached a tooth log and a comp log. Also a picture of my jimstim.

setting to 36 tooth -1 caused a config error

returning to tooth wheel, dual wheel, 8 teeth brought it back

[billr]

The comp log shows only four crank teeth per cam tooth, not what I was expecting (was expecting 8 per 2 crank turns). I'm not understanding that dizzy, I guess.

When you tried 36-1, did you change to 36-1 in TS as well? Maybe post the MSQ, MSL, and tooth-log for a 36-1 attempt.

Ah, the photo... I guess I should have been more specific; post a picture of the Stim that is clear enough to see details on it. I want to check the chip orientation, DIP switches, and jumpers.

[flatbill]

I guess I need to say that the distributor is not hooked to the MS. I'm working on the bench only with the jimstim and the jimx. I am pretty sure that the distributor will put out 8 pulses per distributor or 4 pulses per crank revolution. Then the distributor will put out 1 cam pulse per distributor or per 2 crank revs. I am not with the MS right now but I had the TS set up with 8 pulses, I assume per distributor rev. The jimx is showing the 8 injectors flashing when it is working.

When I tried it at 36-1 I had to select the 36 on the TS. I'll try again and get more logs before and after I try the other settings. Same with the stim photo. The dip sw is set 2 on the rest off. I don't think I have ever had the chip out and I would think it would not work at all if backwards. Sorry for the bad pic. I'll try again. Bill

[flatbill]

Would it make sense to hook up my dual sync FAST distributor to 12v and ground and feed the cam and crank sensor outputs to the stimx? I can easily spin it with a drill. Is there a way to disable the ignition and cam sensor signal from the jimstim? I suppose pulling the jumpers from the primary and secondary tach signals from the jimstim and feeding right to the pins on the stimx would do it. Would the TS work in this way? Bill

[flatbill]

found this thread on the ms3x and the fast dual sync dist. Bill

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 31&t=58923

[jsmcortina]

I can add a couple of things here.

1. The dual sync dizzy should work just fine as an engine position and RPM input.

2. The JimStim is a useful test piece, but doesn't simulate all possible wheel combinations. The signals to the ECU are simulated so not always identical to the actual hardware.

What does this mean? In some cases for bench testing, you may need to select a different wheel combination different to what's actually on your engine.
In your case, I think you should be ok.

Also don't get too worried if you can't get the full RPM range on the bench, it isn't always the same as the engine.

To me, it sounds like you have tested enough on the bench to hook up to the sensors on the engine and start testing live.

James

[flatbill]

Here's another try on a pic of the jimstim. Bill