MS3 + 4 Chanel Ignition/Injection Board

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MS3 + 4 Chanel Ignition/Injection Board

Postby martin2day » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:40 am

Hello,

a want to use an MS3 without the MS3X because i need 4 high power Ignition out and only 4 Injection out.
I have an 4-Cahnenel Ignition/Injection Driver Board form jbperf.
Can i connect the Board to the J1 and J2 of the MS3 Card.

The injection part of the MS3X is similar to the driver board but what about the ignition?
Can i use the 5V Logig Signal from the J1 to fire the BIB373?

Can someone please help me.

Thank you so much.
Martin
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Re: MS3 + 4 Chanel Ignition/Injection Board

Postby billr » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:14 am

I'm pretty sure the answer is "yes", you can drive Jean's board directly from the MS3 headers. His board provides proper buffering for the MS3 CPU outputs. Same for the BP373, that can be driven directly from the CPU as long as the specified 330 ohm resistor is in series between the CPU and BP base/gate lead. I invite correction if I am wrong.
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Re: MS3 + 4 Chanel Ignition/Injection Board

Postby billr » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:25 am

Hmm, I just peeked at the info on Jean's board. It's not clear to me what it is (no schematic available?), but I think it was intended for the MS2 and really offers nothing that you don't already have built-in to the MS3. Wait for somebody who knows to speak up...
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Re: MS3 + 4 Chanel Ignition/Injection Board

Postby racingmini_mtl » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:58 am

billr wrote:Hmm, I just peeked at the info on Jean's board. It's not clear to me what it is (no schematic available?), but I think it was intended for the MS2 and really offers nothing that you don't already have built-in to the MS3. Wait for somebody who knows to speak up...

He said he doesn't have an MS3x so that replaces it (for the ignition and injection drivers). And you can connect directly to the J1 and JP2 headers on the MS3.

Jean
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Re: MS3 + 4 Chanel Ignition/Injection Board

Postby martin2day » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:00 am

Jean,

thank you so much for helping.
This help me a lot und make the build much easier.

Martin
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Re: MS3 + 4 Chanel Ignition/Injection Board

Postby billr » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:47 pm

Jean, help me understand this better:

Can the MS3 drive BIP373s directly, as long as the series resistor is used; or are the MS3 CPU not capable of sourcing/sinking enough current? I realize that another level of buffing, like your board or the MS3X provide is a safer practice; no quibbling about that.

The board of yours in question does not drive low-Z injectors, correct? For that your P & H board would also be required? And, I know the P & H can be driven directly from the MS3. But, maybe not a good practice, same as for the spark?
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Re: MS3 + 4 Chanel Ignition/Injection Board

Postby racingmini_mtl » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:00 pm

Bill,

The issue with the BIP373's (and other ignition drivers) is not so much the sourcing/sinking capability of the MS3 but rather the safety of routing a 'raw' CPU signal outside the MS box. With my board, this is not the case in a typical installation so there is no issue. But if you use an external box then you would need an additional buffering inside the MS3 box to protect the CPU pins.

And my board uses the same injector drivers as what is used on the MS3X and the Microsquirt so they are not suitable for low-Z injectors. You would indeed need the P&H driver board. And this board can also be connected directly to the MS3 (J1 header) as long as you keep it inside the MS3 box.

Jean
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Re: MS3 + 4 Chanel Ignition/Injection Board

Postby billr » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:19 pm

Okay, got it; thanks. My apologies to the OP for dragging this thread a bit off-topic.
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Re: MS3 + 4 Chanel Ignition/Injection Board

Postby martin2day » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:07 am

Good morning,

thank you for the good information.
For me it is no off-topic. For me the information is very good and i think also for other people.
For my application the ignition/injection driver board is okay. I use it in the MS3 case and i drive high-Z injectors.

If some one do it an other way it can give problems...
Logik signals outside the MS3 give other problems...

Thank you so much.
Martin
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Re: MS3 + 4 Chanel Ignition/Injection Board

Postby billr » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:44 pm

Do you understand that you will still need spark-coil and injector power drivers in addition to the 4-channel board?
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Re: MS3 + 4 Chanel Ignition/Injection Board

Postby martin2day » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:12 pm

Bill,

i don't understand what you are meaning?
I want to drive semi sequential and wasted spark, so i will connect 2 injectors and 4 wasted spark coils to my msq.
So i need only 4 injectors and 4 ignition outs.

So i think i connect the driver board to my daughter board and that's it.

Martin
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Re: MS3 + 4 Chanel Ignition/Injection Board

Postby billr » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:39 pm

That four channel board outputs only low-power signals, not enough power to drive either high or low-Z injectors or a spark coil. The only exception to that is if your spark coils are "smart" (logic-level input) coils with power drivers built-in to them; a "smart" coil can connect directly to the four channel board. That board is only to isolate the CPU from cruel things in the outside world like injector coils or spark coils.

Again, I'm relying on Jean to correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: MS3 + 4 Chanel Ignition/Injection Board

Postby racingmini_mtl » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:46 pm

Bill, that's not correct. I don't know if the misunderstanding comes from my previous response but the board provides the drivers for both injection and ignition. It takes the logic CPU signals as input and outputs the high current signals for the injectors and coils.

Jean
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Re: MS3 + 4 Chanel Ignition/Injection Board

Postby billr » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:21 pm

Jean, I don't think it was your explanation in the recent reply, but maybe the description of the board on your web-site. I'll have to go back there and see what I as reading wrong. Does that 4-channel board handle low-Z injectors, or does that require the additional P & H board? The more I think about it, I think you already covered that too, I just wasn't putting all the pieces of the explanation(s) together properly. Again,my apologies for getting this more confused than it should have been.

"And my board uses the same injector drivers as what is used on the MS3X and the Microsquirt so they are not suitable for low-Z injectors. You would indeed need the P&H driver board. And this board can also be connected directly to the MS3 (J1 header) as long as you keep it inside the MS3 box."


Yep, it's pretty clear; don't know how I got so confused...
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