MS2 resets when receiving signals from VR sensor

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Dennis_Zx7r
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MS2 resets when receiving signals from VR sensor

Post by Dennis_Zx7r »

Hello, I'm trying to get a MS2 V3.0 with MsExtra software (3.4.2) to work. I built a kit ordered from DIYAutotune myself.
I followed every recommendation I can think of in the MsExtra manual, so wiring and assembly are standard.
I use a 24-1 wheel with the original VR sensor of a Kawasaki Zx7r. The bike is fed by carburetors usually, the wheel is therefore aftermarket. If some words seem strange to you, please just assume the most likely fitting word as I'm not a native speaker.

I'm stuck trying to get a signal from the VR sensor. Well, the signal seems ok, but the MS resets after cranking a few seconds, respectively after about 20 to 40 signals from the VR sensor.
I think of it as a reset, because the connection to the MS is lost for a few seconds, and the logs "stop" the time for a few seconds and don't record any data... see picture.
Image
The clock of the MS, displayable in TunerStudio, also resets, and there are "MARK" entries in the log files.
VR-Sensor only connected to the MS, problem even occurs when the sensor is completely removed from the motor and is being triggered by a screwdriver. Cranking makes for a 3V Signal, spinning the crankshaft by hand makes for 0,8V. Problem occurs even when spinning by hand.
Board is configured for VR (TachSel -> VRIn; TSEL -> VROut). Currently theres only the VR sensor and the voltage supply left connected.

Stuff I already tried, besides the standard procedures in the manuals:
-Checked the soldering scrupulously, redoing every even slighty questionable point. Tested for shorts on the little transistors with the very little legs.
-Starter motor shouldn't be the problem, as the problem also occurs when feeding the MS voltage by an external battery, without any contact to the bikes wiring (VR sensor and MS grounded to external battery).
Voltage shown by the MS is stable, at a minimum of 11.8 when fed by the bike's battery and cranking. 14.6V stable when fed by external battery.
Problem also occurs when NOT cranking and spinning the crankshaft with non-power tools.
-Different cables to the VR sensor. In the beginning I used to original wiring, after that a twisted-pair cable. Currently I use a 10cm long wire, with the MS right next to the sensor. I think noise in the wire is very unlikely at this point.
-As the TPS input creeps upwards all the time when the TPS isn't attached, I connected and calibrated it. No change.
-In the proto area, I built a FET-logic output circuit for 4 COPs, which I want to use in Wasted-COP (5.3.1.3 MSExtra hardware manual, successfully tested in the coil test mode). I disconnected it completely after suspecting ignition as the problem.
-Resistors of 2k and 10k between VR sensor and the MS.

It seems to me the MS might be resetting when trying to fire the coils the first time, after receiving a few valid signals. When generating irregelar or unsteady signals on purpose, the MS does not reset.
This is also the case when setting the polarity of the sensor the wrong way or screwing the potentiometers (too) far in clockwise.

Maybe someone can suggest what to test next, or if I'm even going the right direction. I guess identifying the components belonging to the VR processing circuit may also help, so I can have a look at them especially. I'm pretty much out of ideas at this point. So every bit of help is appreciated, especially as this problem seems to be quite unusual... couldn't find anything like this mentioned via Google.

Attached is a ToothLogger-log which represents the problem and the current MSQ.
ToothLog2.csv
Ms2_Zx7r_v1.msq
My project: Link
Matt Cramer
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Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:08 pm

Re: MS2 resets when receiving signals from VR sensor

Post by Matt Cramer »

Can you post a regular data log? This will show if it's an actual reset.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
Dennis_Zx7r
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 374
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 1:25 pm
Location: Germany

Re: MS2 resets when receiving signals from VR sensor

Post by Dennis_Zx7r »

Thanks for the quick reply.
Here are two logs I did today. I was using the external battery and cranking with the starter motor. After the first (presumed) reset, I waited a few seconds after the MS got back online. Then I cranked again, until the problem occured (only a few seconds). So there are 2 crankings per logfile.
There are 2 logfiles, because I just noticed there are two ways the MS (presumably) resets. As the VR sensor has two wires and therefore can be wired two ways, I logged both variants.
With the sensor wired way A, the clock of the MS resets and the logging pauses. With the sensor wired way B, the MS completely loses connection for several seconds. I would assume it crashes way harder than when the sensor is wired the other way around.
Reset_test_cranking_1.msl
Reset_test_cranking_2.msl
edit:
In addition, I measured the current the MS draws, to see if there might be some shortcircuits or something.
It draws around 300 +-200mA and about 10% more when connected to Tunerstudio. My Ampmeter here is unfortunately horribly imprecise between 0.2 and 1A.
The value is stable, even when the problem occurs.

To weaken my hypothesis, that ignition or an injection after a few good signals would be the cause of the crash:
I just successfully tested all injectors and the ignition without the board failing. It really seems to be triggered only by the VR input.

edit2:
If I interpret the logging tool correctly, there definitely are resets just after MS recognizes the engine as cranking. (picture)
graph.png
My project: Link
DaveEFI
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Re: MS2 resets when receiving signals from VR sensor

Post by DaveEFI »

I bought a Stim with my very first MS. On the principle that it's good to test anything on the bench before using it. Now a JimStim.

Do check your soldering on the VR input stage, though. I've fixed a couple of V3 boards with dry joints to the opamp. Look carefully, and make sure the solder has flowed to both sides of the board on the legs.
Rover SD1 3.5 EFI
MS2 V3
EDIS
Tech Edge O2
London UK.
Dennis_Zx7r
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 374
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 1:25 pm
Location: Germany

Re: MS2 resets when receiving signals from VR sensor

Post by Dennis_Zx7r »

I found this testing sequence for the VR-circuit, which helped me identify the components of the circuit. According to the tests, everything seems to be in order.
I disconnected the VR-circuit completely and went for a rectangular signal directly at TSEL (0 to 5V). Same problem, and I guess that means the VR circuit maybe isn't the problem.

---

I just tried something different. As I can't find any fault in the hardware, I guess I neglected the software. I just flushed the firmware again and loaded a default project. And guess what, it seems to work on my little testbench and a manually triggered signal, even through the VR circuit.
I redid all the necessary settings (wheel etc.) and am getting stable operation.
I just confirmed this on the bike with the real sensor.
So, somewhere, something in the software went wrong, and I have no idea what it was. I reentered all my settings, the same as in the other tune, and I still can't get it to crash again.

In short: Reflashed firmware, new project (with identical settings) -> Works! :yeah!:
Oh boy, this could have been a lot less work if I mistrusted my electronics skills a little less.
Thanks for trying to help nonetheless! I'm sure the next problem won't be too far away, as the real work stars now :lol:
My project: Link
DaveEFI
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:55 am
Location: SW London, UK

Re: MS2 resets when receiving signals from VR sensor

Post by DaveEFI »

I have had problems with new software in the past, and it turned out to be an inadequate power supply. In theory, the spec looked ok - 300 mA at 12v. I now do everything with a decent 13.8v PS where you can set the maximum output current - or use a fuse.
Rover SD1 3.5 EFI
MS2 V3
EDIS
Tech Edge O2
London UK.
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