MS3X Board testing prior to cpu install (Pin 16)

Ask questions about DIY board assembly issues, fault finding and testing. (Covers all Megasquirt versions and board.)

Moderators: jsmcortina, muythaibxr

MS3X Board testing prior to cpu install (Pin 16)

Postby sjl008 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:08 am

Hi All.

Got my 5th DIY V3.0 but plan on running this like the VK56 I did years back. PROJECT IS NISSAN VQ37DE with VVEL & VVT. (2002 infiniti I think)

Question: PIN 16 on 40 pin socket, ALL 5v/0vdc reference voltages are present except pin 16 which I read in "a" MS3 manual, should be 12v but I've got 0.59~63vdc. (Pin 15 is 4.98~4.99.) otherwise my 12.8 input is cleanly giving exact .00vdc where it's suppose to.

Did I miss a jumper somewhere? I've spent a good 5 hours goojling/searching forums etc.. to find something re: this with no luck.

SJL
My Signature: google Henry Ford's quotes ;)
sjl008
Helpful MS/Extra'er
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:23 pm
Location: 'round the clock-'round the world. 127.0.0.1 mostly....

Re: MS3X Board testing prior to cpu install (Pin 16)

Postby grom_e30 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:05 am

S12C-JS9 i think that is for 12v for the stepper motor driver chip.
1990 bmw 320i daily driver with m20b25 ms3 sequential fuel, 380cc injectors, d585 coil near plug, home made cam sync, launch control, fan control, vss, homebrew egt logging what's next????
grom_e30
Super MS/Extra'er
 
Posts: 3919
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:44 pm
Location: UK

Re: MS3X Board testing prior to cpu install (Pin 16)

Postby sjl008 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:54 pm

grom_e30 wrote:S12C-JS9 i think that is for 12v for the stepper motor driver chip.


So, I can assume that while the instructions direct me to check "PIN 16 should be +12v" ON the 40pin SOCKET, it serves no other purpose like powering the CPU or something else important?

If I'm going to test my board correctly as per instructions, shouldn't I currently have 12v @ pin 16? HINT: I have NO jumpers connected YET for IAC motors, or TSEL/OPIOUT etc...

Thank you for your reply Grom, all help welcomed!

Cheers
Attachments
boardTesting.JPG
boardTesting.JPG (58.15 KiB) Viewed 483 times
My Signature: google Henry Ford's quotes ;)
sjl008
Helpful MS/Extra'er
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:23 pm
Location: 'round the clock-'round the world. 127.0.0.1 mostly....

Re: MS3X Board testing prior to cpu install (Pin 16)

Postby grom_e30 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:16 am

the cpu is 5v. im pretty sure the S12C-JS9 is just to power the stepper motor driver chip that lives on the ms3 card and it may be needed for the switch inputs on the ms3x card if i remember correctly.

if you have not installed this jumper you will get no 12v
1990 bmw 320i daily driver with m20b25 ms3 sequential fuel, 380cc injectors, d585 coil near plug, home made cam sync, launch control, fan control, vss, homebrew egt logging what's next????
grom_e30
Super MS/Extra'er
 
Posts: 3919
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:44 pm
Location: UK

Re: MS3X Board testing prior to cpu install (Pin 16)

Postby jsmcortina » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:30 am

Install the jumper.

James
I can supply, repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: viewtopic.php?f=104&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
jsmcortina
Site Admin
 
Posts: 33672
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 1:34 am
Location: Birmingham, UK

Re: MS3X Board testing prior to cpu install (Pin 16)

Postby sjl008 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:15 am

THANKS.

I'm first going to load up w/ms-II daughter card so I don't chance ruining my new MS3xcpu n expansion board. Then remove daughtercard, and install jumper, and load up the MS3X with the jumper. (sorry for the rudementary questions... I will NOTE: this down for future builds. Thnx James and supporters!

J.
:RTFM:
Attachments
fdth.jpg
fdth.jpg (72.87 KiB) Viewed 471 times
My Signature: google Henry Ford's quotes ;)
sjl008
Helpful MS/Extra'er
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:23 pm
Location: 'round the clock-'round the world. 127.0.0.1 mostly....

Re: MS3X Board testing prior to cpu install (Pin 16)

Postby DaveEFI » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:44 am

That jumper is usually installed early on as it is more tricky with the processor socket in place. There should also have been a warning about not installing it if an MS1 chip is to be used. Likely why it is an option, rather than hard wired.
Rover SD1 3.5 EFI
MS2 V3
EDIS
Tech Edge O2
London UK.
DaveEFI
Super MS/Extra'er
 
Posts: 2604
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:55 am

Re: MS3X Board testing prior to cpu install (Pin 16)

Postby sjl008 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:09 am

DaveEFI wrote:That jumper is usually installed early on as it is more tricky with the processor socket in place. There should also have been a warning about not installing it if an MS1 chip is to be used. Likely why it is an option, rather than hard wired.


Over the years I've slowly realized a lot of intelligence in the board's versatility. Probably serves a purpose I won't find out that jumpers purpose until my 10th build... :shock: .

Now I have to fight the VQ37's bazaar quad 6 wire VVEL (Variable valve event and lift) basically has a screw drive fast moving actuator on back of intake cam to mechanically increase or decrease lift/duration according to computer's command. I just want to varify both positions are sync'd, and be able to flip the switch from "Mild to Wild" cam side intake, and eventually (dreaming ahead again) work towards a matched up exhaust cam for performance being it's strickly for race/play, and not daily road 'emissions' category.

P.S.- I went ahead and dropped the jmpr in.
All I had to do was reference my 200 pages of notes aquired over the years, I will remember it next time. Now I have to fight the VQ37's bazaar quad 6 wire VVEL (Variable valve event and lift) basically has a screw drive fast moving actuator on back of intake cam to mechanically increase or decrease lift/duration according to computer's command. I just want to varify both positions are sync'd, and be able to flip the switch from "Mild to Wild" cam side intake, and eventually (dreaming ahead again) work towards a matched up exhaust cam for performance being it's strickly for race/play, and not daily road 'emissions' category.
Attachments
fig2514std-pro_en.png
fig2514std-pro_en.png (174.18 KiB) Viewed 466 times
My Signature: google Henry Ford's quotes ;)
sjl008
Helpful MS/Extra'er
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:23 pm
Location: 'round the clock-'round the world. 127.0.0.1 mostly....

Re: MS3X Board testing prior to cpu install (Pin 16)

Postby sjl008 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:22 am

jsmcortina wrote:Install the jumper.

James

So, MS2extra 3.4.2 loaded up fine, works great with ms stim, can't use the TS(licensed vers.fyi) to load firmware.... just sitz n spins for ever; I use the .exe cmd loader its fine w/USB-SERIAL. So, been wanting ULTRA T.S. , and upgraded my win7 os T.S. (tuner studios) still sits n spins serching 4 a port or something. Putting that asside, I installed my MS3daughter card and followed instructions to recognize and bootload firmware. it gets to like 98% then throws an error (pic posted.)

I really want to get this COP V6 running asap. Instructions clearly state: "MS2 does have many extensions using the Extra firmware; limited sequential EFI setups, 4 cylinder sequential fuel and 6 cylinder coil-on-plug are directly supported. Ignition configuration options like Ford EDIS allows up to 8 cylinder operation."

SWEET. my logic level COPs can work with MS2extra? then I can proceed to firing it up now. Correct?

At this point should I create a separate post for this project? got impressive pics coming..... The cars almost finished too.
Attachments
beginVQ37COPms2.msq
This is just a "Test" msq only. (Forum suggestion 2put msq.)
(120.29 KiB) Downloaded 12 times
failed ECUflash.JPG
failed ECUflash.JPG (91.35 KiB) Viewed 450 times
My Signature: google Henry Ford's quotes ;)
sjl008
Helpful MS/Extra'er
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:23 pm
Location: 'round the clock-'round the world. 127.0.0.1 mostly....

Re: MS3X Board testing prior to cpu install (Pin 16)

Postby billr » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:45 am

I gotta ask... why are you trying to load MS2 firmware when all else indicates you have an MS3???
billr
Super MS/Extra'er
 
Posts: 4712
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:41 am
Location: Walnut Creek, Calif. USA

Re: MS3X Board testing prior to cpu install (Pin 16)

Postby sjl008 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:14 pm

billr wrote:I gotta ask... why are you trying to load MS2 firmware when all else indicates you have an MS3???


I actually have both, multiple kits ready, kinda personal inventory I've got from DIYautotune. (I'm not associated with them fyi...) just convenient. Best way to learn (Me) is by doing) Today I'll need to build the "ignition interface circuit as instructed in the manual sect 5.3.1.2 if nissan's 3-wire coils are of the high current draw(I don't think they are BUT must chk first.)

Legit question billr. :D

I'll go to my MS3x after I learn the MS2x way of COPs....I've done the MS3x on the VK V8 nissan motor so I know it works fine.

Lotta wiring on this particular motor regardless of 'WHOs' standalone system you buy, I have MS2extra that I spent 5 hours fiddling around with my laptop and software to get right so I want to "hear the thing run".... that will re-motivate me and know tangible results are around the corner. Again....
My Signature: google Henry Ford's quotes ;)
sjl008
Helpful MS/Extra'er
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:23 pm
Location: 'round the clock-'round the world. 127.0.0.1 mostly....

Re: MS3X Board testing prior to cpu install (Pin 16)

Postby sjl008 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:26 pm

The BOSCH insulated-gate bipolar transistor (IGBT) could be swapped for say an IFR or fairchild push comes to shove since I replaced my Japanese Suzuki's with one B4, i'm wondering. Can't wait for delivery where I'm @. It's just an NPN fast switching FET right :shock: ?
My Signature: google Henry Ford's quotes ;)
sjl008
Helpful MS/Extra'er
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:23 pm
Location: 'round the clock-'round the world. 127.0.0.1 mostly....

Re: MS3X Board testing prior to cpu install (Pin 16)

Postby prof315 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:49 am

sjl008 wrote:
billr wrote:I gotta ask... why are you trying to load MS2 firmware when all else indicates you have an MS3???


I actually have both, multiple kits ready, kinda personal inventory I've got from DIYautotune. (I'm not associated with them fyi...) just convenient. Best way to learn (Me) is by doing) Today I'll need to build the "ignition interface circuit as instructed in the manual sect 5.3.1.2 if nissan's 3-wire coils are of the high current draw(I don't think they are BUT must chk first.)

Legit question billr. :D

I'll go to my MS3x after I learn the MS2x way of COPs....I've done the MS3x on the VK V8 nissan motor so I know it works fine.

Lotta wiring on this particular motor regardless of 'WHOs' standalone system you buy, I have MS2extra that I spent 5 hours fiddling around with my laptop and software to get right so I want to "hear the thing run".... that will re-motivate me and know tangible results are around the corner. Again....


VQ coils are logic level. Use the TC4427 method for logic spark outputs.
Linfert Performance: Come run up front
92 Corrado 2.0L ABA and Borg Warner EFR 6258 on MS3Pro.
94 Ranger 2.3 Twin Plug on MS2
Support the developers!
prof315
Super MS/Extra'er
 
Posts: 2427
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:13 am
Location: Melbourne, FL

Re: MS3X Board testing prior to cpu install (Pin 16)

Postby sjl008 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:08 am

That's good to know, I have some place to start, problem is I can't wait to order some tc4427's so I really need to know:

1) if they are POSITIVE +5V triggered coils, or NEG. -5v triggered ( grounded out to the trigger pin) e.g. infinity to neg trigger, or infinity to +5vlogic level triggered.

2) MS2extra CPU emit positive, or negative trigger when using the "6cyl Wasted spark mode" circuit described in the manual????

For those "in the know" might sound like a stupid question but I've spent 2 days trying to "search" for this answer. Circuits I can build, just need to know a few things.... with this info next post should have a running motor.( fingers X-'ssed)
My Signature: google Henry Ford's quotes ;)
sjl008
Helpful MS/Extra'er
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:23 pm
Location: 'round the clock-'round the world. 127.0.0.1 mostly....

Re: MS3X Board testing prior to cpu install (Pin 16)

Postby jsmcortina » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:12 am

Logic coils take a positive pulse.
High current coils take a grounding pulse.

Your software setting must match up with the coil driver wiring you use.

James
I can supply, repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: viewtopic.php?f=104&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
jsmcortina
Site Admin
 
Posts: 33672
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 1:34 am
Location: Birmingham, UK

Re: MS3X Board testing prior to cpu install (Pin 16)

Postby sjl008 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:35 am

jsmcortina wrote:Logic coils take a positive pulse.
High current coils take a grounding pulse.

Your software setting must match up with the coil driver wiring you use.

James

Tnx James..... software setting, is that the "Going high-going low" setting? I know I can look it up... throwing it in here.

I have 6 TIP41C's .... I'l don't think I can use these... NPN amplifies to a Negative Pulse...(They cross reference to TO220's)

So, if I use the MS2/EXTRA manual's setup, my circuit will need to be triggered oddly, or work on using my MS3/EXTRA that won't upload it's s.19 file :-/

Apoligize for my impatience... I have 3 days to getur runnin', and on a budget.
Attachments
VQ37manualSCHMTICcop.JPG
VQ37manualSCHMTICcop.JPG (21.88 KiB) Viewed 379 times
My Signature: google Henry Ford's quotes ;)
sjl008
Helpful MS/Extra'er
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:23 pm
Location: 'round the clock-'round the world. 127.0.0.1 mostly....

Re: MS3X Board testing Nissan VQ37

Postby sjl008 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:07 am

Got laptop to accept MS3EXTRA;

Followed instructions for VR (like the 2012 VK I did) TSEL, VRin etc..., Loaded up VQ35DE decoder, turned Pots(crk) CntrClkWise then clockwise 4 turns (both) wired up cyl.#1camshaft sensor (engine has 2 sensors)and.....I guess next I'll Oscope it. See if there's a signal from the 3-wire nissan CAS, and/or Cam sensor.

1) No composite log signal. Hhhhmmm.

Any ideas?
Attachments
IgnOptions.JPG
IgnOptions.JPG (80.09 KiB) Viewed 368 times
GeneralStngs.JPG
GeneralStngs.JPG (97 KiB) Viewed 368 times
seqSetngs.JPG
seqSetngs.JPG (58.42 KiB) Viewed 368 times
My Signature: google Henry Ford's quotes ;)
sjl008
Helpful MS/Extra'er
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:23 pm
Location: 'round the clock-'round the world. 127.0.0.1 mostly....

1 last thing B4 I move post....

Postby sjl008 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:09 pm

Think I've progressed enough to move the post now.

This motor has a 10-2-2-2 flywheel. I think that's how you'd specify it, with 10 teeth then 2 teeth missing x3 - totalling 30 teeth with 3 spots evenly spaced missing 2 teeth.....


Not sure if that's the "Nissan VQ35DE decoder" I started with in my base tune. (Which of course will need massaging)

FYI- Coils ARE 3-wire:
1- Trigger =<+5vdc
2- Ground to motor
3- +12volts supplied from fuel pump relay(Me), or Donor car's OEM setup "relay signaled on/off from stock ECU".
Attachments
2017-03-19_23.10.27.msq
(285.52 KiB) Downloaded 13 times
My Signature: google Henry Ford's quotes ;)
sjl008
Helpful MS/Extra'er
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:23 pm
Location: 'round the clock-'round the world. 127.0.0.1 mostly....

Thread Moved...

Postby sjl008 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:56 pm

-
-
-
-
-

****___________________________Moved thread to: viewtopic.php?f=131&t=65594 _________****
My Signature: google Henry Ford's quotes ;)
sjl008
Helpful MS/Extra'er
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:23 pm
Location: 'round the clock-'round the world. 127.0.0.1 mostly....


Return to Board assembly and testing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests