MS2 3.0 Almost Assembled. Now what?

[slow_hemi6]

I used the term output's because it can get complicated fast with so many different options. Following the manual for your particular combination is essential in all cases. Output can vary from a resistor and a wire to various driver stages depending on your parts and their requirements. All the while ensuring a processor pin is never overloaded or spiked. But at no point would you ever just parallel up a couple of coils.

[nismoautoxr]

If your coils have built in ignitors then yes you would skip the bip373 drivers because they are only used to directly drive a high current coil that does not have an ignitor. The Bip373 would be the ignitor. In the case of using ignitor coils you would send a signal to each coil using logic outputs i.e. the Leds in the case of an MS2.

[argyle_j]

Alrighty.. So I thought I got everything right, but when I hook up to the jimstim, I can't get an RPM out.
My other inputs are fine (MAT, O2, TEMP, TPS).

I've finished the following..

Added PWM Idle as per assembly guide -
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/build_manual.htm

ii) PWM Idle Valve: (MS1 or MS2) 2, 3 wired devices need a TIP122 and mica insulation.
a) Cut the legs of the TIP122 so they are half the length they were as new.
b) Fit a piece of mica insulation under it and using plastic screws bolt it to the heatsink in a spare position, or bolt onto the case.
c) Solder a wire from the centre pin of Q4 to the pin 1 of the TIP122.
d) Solder a wire from the right of R39 to the pin 3 of the TIP122
(Some installs might connect pin 3 to the bottom of R43, that's fine too.)
e) Ensure D8 is not fitted or remove it if it is.
f) Get an IN4001 (you should have a spare from D2) and install the non banded end into the right hole of D8 and the banded end to S12.
g) Solder a wire from the non-banded side of the 1N4001 diode to pin 2 of the TIP122.

Input for Hall Sensor as per assembly guide -
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/build_manual.htm

Hall sensors Only (EDIS, VAST, luminition, etc):
a) Link OPTOOUT to TSEL
b) Solder a wire between TACHSELECT and XG1
c) For 5V inputs fit a 470R resistor into the position of R12
For 12V inputs fit a 1K resistor into the position of R12
d) For 5V inputs solder a wire between the top hole of C30 and 5V on the proto area.
For 12V inputs, solder a wire between the top hole of C30 and s12c pad on the main board.

Input for Optical Hall Sensor-
http://www.msextra.com/doc/general/tach ... tml#vrpull

V3.0 board - VR Input with pullup for hall sensors, LS2/58X, optical sensors or points
a) Solder a link between VRIN and TACHSELECT
b) Solder a wire between VrOUT and TSEL
c) Install a 1k resistor (any value 470R - 2k2 is likely ok) in the proto area. Connect one end to the 5V hole and join the other end to VRIN with a jumper wire.
d) With a small screwdriver, turn the pots, R52 and R56, about 12 turns anticlockwise (sometimes you may feel a "click" when the end position is reached, they can't be damaged by turning too far.) and then turn R56 back about 6 turns clockwise.

Output for Logic Level Ignition -
http://www.msextra.com/doc/general/sparkout-v30.html

When using logic level coils or an external ignition module, the ECU needs to be configured to supply logic-level outputs.
The diagram here shows the connections required for four channels (e.g. 4cyl COP or 8cyl wasted spark.) (diagrams omited)

Mods for DIYPNP Wheel -
http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_article ... _discs.htm

Cut out C12 and C30. (Only needed when triggering from the - terminal of the coil, which you are not)
Remove D1 and jumper it, or just install a jumper wire across it's leads. (Only needed when triggering from the - terminal of the coil, which you are not)
Cut out R57 if fitted (this won't be there on my units though).
Connect S12 to TachSelect using a 1K resistor. (Or you can use a 1K pull up in the wiring, between pin 24 and a 12V source.)
If you want sequential coil on plug (or sequential injection with the 3.2.1 code), you'll also need a second trigger input. Solder a 1K resistor onto a length of wire, and cover the resistor with heat shrink tubing. Connect this resistor-on-a-wire combination from JS10 to SPR1.
Solder a 470 ohm resistor onto a length of wire and cover with heat shrink tubing. Run this resistor-on-a-wire from the 5 volt terminal in the proto area to SPR1.
Connect a 0.1 uF capacitor from JS10 to SG or the proto area ground.

[nismoautoxr]

whoa horsey. You got like 3 differant mods going on there for your tachin circuit. You should only be using the one for your trigger wheel. anything you have done outside of what is listed to be done for your trigger wheel is overdone. Very carefully undo all tach input mods except those that are listed to be done for your DIY trigger wheel. Also do not do any of the instructions that end in "only if triggering from - terminal of coil "

[argyle_j]

I knew something was fishy about these instructions.
In trying to following instructions to the letter, I didn't realize that there's really only 1 way to do the input.

Nismoautoxr - I see you put an LS1 into your S14. Nice. This setup is for a KA into an E30.

[nismoautoxr]

yes but prior to putting in the LS1 ...I had a diypnp running MS2 extra on the ka24de with the diy 24-1-1 wheel in the stock dizzy using LS coils so I am familiar with the configuration LOL. After blowing up 3 sets of pistons with a doomed supercharger setup I decided that the NA v8 was going to serve my track day purposes more reliably than the boosted KA so thats how the LS1 came about . I used the exact same input circuit on the diypnp to run the LS1 in wasted spark and batch injection untill I decided to upgrade to the MS3 and 3x for sequential spark and fuel . Kindof funny how a project starts in one direction and evolves into a competely differant direction huh?

You may want to post the msq and a datalog of your jimstim testing and include information on what wheel mode you are testing on with the jimstim as well.

[argyle_j]

Yep. I've had this KA boosted since 2003, and it's seen 3 different chassis. I finally blew it and figured it was time to see how far these efi systems have progressed in 10 years.

Lets just say this MS stuff is a far cry from an ecu and piggy-back. There's a hell of a lot more to play with now.

[argyle_j]

Some progress made.

I undid all output mods other than the 4 channels described here -
http://www.msextra.com/doc/general/spar ... html#logic

I also undid all the input mods other than what's described here -
http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_article ... _discs.htm
Is this enough? Why did I have to undo what's in the assembly instructions?

I hooked up to jimstim and set up tunerstudio to accept the setup..
Still no sync and of course, no rpm.

[argyle_j]

Here's the msq.

argyle_test_01.msq

Here's the log

2014-01-19_13.34.29.msl

[nismoautoxr]

how do you have the jimstim setup ? I see you are using the settings for the wheel in your distributor in your MSQ. Jean or James will have to confirm this but I dont know that you are going to have a lot of luck simulating that wheel on the stim.

[nismoautoxr]

the diyautotune instructions look a bit confusing to me . It does not tell you this but SPR1 is a spare pin in the db37. On your extrnal wiring ...you will need to send your outer slit hall signal to SPR1 on the harness side. The same is true when testing that particular input with the jimstim

[argyle_j]

so, spr1 is actually a pin on the connector? (edit: I'm an idiot.)

I am very confused now.
Can you just reconfirm this is what i'm supposed to be doing?

From the top..

I assembled the board from step 1 through 25..
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/build_manual.htm

I skipped step 26, and instead did wheel mods from...

Hardware mods - V3.0
Cut out C12 and C30. (Only needed when triggering from the - terminal of the coil, which you are not)
Remove D1 and jumper it, or just install a jumper wire across it's leads. (Only needed when triggering from the - terminal of the coil, which you are not)
Cut out R57 if fitted (this won't be there on my units though).
Connect S12 to TachSelect using a 1K resistor. (Or you can use a 1K pull up in the wiring, between pin 24 and a 12V source.)
If you want sequential coil on plug (or sequential injection with the 3.2.1 code), you'll also need a second trigger input. Solder a 1K resistor onto a length of wire, and cover the resistor with heat shrink tubing. Connect this resistor-on-a-wire combination from JS10 to SPR1.
Solder a 470 ohm resistor onto a length of wire and cover with heat shrink tubing. Run this resistor-on-a-wire from the 5 volt terminal in the proto area to SPR1.
Connect a 0.1 uF capacitor from JS10 to SG or the proto area ground.
Install the spark output of your choice. BIP373 or QuadSpark output mods are two possible choices.

[nismoautoxr]

according to this spr1 is pin 3 on the db37. You would bring your outer slit sensor from you distributor into pin3 which is the cam input that leads to the mods you put in for JS10.

That being said...not sure I know why diys instructions are recommending using SPR1 to carry the cam signal . The diagram typically tries to keep SPR1 and 2 for can communications but that's not a big deal. Any of your spare teminals can be used for whatever you please so long as you don't try and use 1 spare pin to do 2 different things at the same time ...its just a standardization thing really.

[argyle_j]

Currently I have 2 things attached to SPR1.

Spark output A
and whatever the wheel instructions are telling me to do

I'm assuming this is incorrect..?

I think i'm about ready to give up on this trigger wheel, and try and get the MS working in a more generic fashion.

[nismoautoxr]

yeah like I said you cant use 1 pin for 2 different things. With any configuration you go with you will have to wire it all up. I ran my KA with the stock wheel for a few weeks but it was plagued with startup kickback and I put the diy wheel in and that was all solved. You are doing the best thing by using that ...you just gotta get your head wrapped around things .

Is your db37 harness connector fully populated (has a wire in each cavity)?

[argyle_j]

Ok forget I did anything.

I desoldering everything on my board, so it looks like i'm at step 25 in the assembly...

How should I proceed?

[nismoautoxr]

You have to do what is listed in the instructions. The wire from JS10 to SPR1 is the signal wire. The wire from 5v to SPR1 is the pullup which is also necessary so yes do that. I thought I read that you had sparka hooked to it ...that would be incorrect if that were the case

[nismoautoxr]

patience grasshopper. Is your DB37 harness connector fully populated?

[argyle_j]

Here's the current state of the board after I reset back to step 25.

FRONT

P1090784.jpg

http://msextra.com/forums/download/file.php?id=33033

BACK

P1090785.jpg

http://msextra.com/forums/download/file.php?id=33036


There's still a left over transistor in the proto area, and the D1 jumper described in the wheel instructions, but other than that i'm right back at step 25.

[nismoautoxr]

OK then you are ready for your hall inputs to be built....diys instructions now except if I were you Id use JS10 to SPR3 with the resistor lead and splice into the spr3 end of the lead with the 470 ohm pullup lead to 5volts in the protoarea. You still need answer my question about your DB37 harness connector. Are you using a fully populated connector with wires in every pin or are you building one with a solder cup connector??