MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

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91DakBuilder
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MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by 91DakBuilder »

So I've been building my MS3 system for quite sometime now, I've gotten all of the soldering completed, with a few oversights. My first problem I'm having is that I do not see 12v's on pin 16 of the 40pin connector. All other voltages reads correctly according to the manuals instructions. The left pin of Q12 reads slightly low at 10.67v. I checked the resistance of Q9 & 12 and found them to measure 61k ohms, which is well over the 300 ohm minimum resistance. I'm not sure how to proceed from here. As a side note, I'm plugged directly into the JimStim, and I'm running the V3.0 board. I've checked to see if there are any solder joints however I was unable to truely detect any........ Thank for any help in advance, I'll try to update this thread regularly until I get this thing running on MS.
Matt Cramer
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by Matt Cramer »

Just checking - is the JS9 to S12C jumper in place?
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
91DakBuilder
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by 91DakBuilder »

Matt,

At the time of this post, it was not in place. After rereading the instructions again, I installed that connection, and I'm almost positive it will solve my problem with Pin 16. Now for another issue I need clarification on. I'm planning on using the stock Distributor along with the 36:1 wheel like we discussed. I'm not sure if I need to make the S0-S3 to IACA- IACB 2IACA-2IACB jumper Modifcation. I have the MS3X card and plan to use this as well?
91DakBuilder
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by 91DakBuilder »

Matt,

I just rechecked Pin 16 using the JimStim, and I now have a voltage of 10.67 v, which is exactly the same as the left side of Q12. If I'm not mistaken this is a little low, but may be passable. Please chime in if I'm over analyzing this. I have not made any adjustments to the power setting on the JimStim. Thanks for everything.
Matt Cramer
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by Matt Cramer »

The power sounds fine. And yes, these engines have a stepper IAC, so set up the main board to use it.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
91DakBuilder
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by 91DakBuilder »

Out of curiousity what advantages will I find using the MS3X card. From what I can see at this point the V3.0 main board really has all of the functionality I need at this point. At least until I get ready to try to convert to a COP or Coil Pack setup. Any thoughts on this?
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by Matt Cramer »

It will allow sequential injection and more I/O.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by 91DakBuilder »

That is exactly what I want. So in that case do I only need to use the MS3X card cabling when wiring up my truck?
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by Matt Cramer »

You would use connections on both the main board and MS3X.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
91DakBuilder
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by 91DakBuilder »

Matt,

Have you ever toyed with the Ford EDIS ignition system? I think I can retrofit one of the EDIS-6 systems onto my 3.9, elminate the stock computer and have a COP setup, for hotter spark, to complement the Power Dyne S/C. I already need to use the 36:1 wheel due to the wacky crank setup Chrysler uses on these engines. Just curious as to what your thoughts are?
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by Matt Cramer »

I wouldn't bother using an EDIS module with MS3; direct coil control is just as easy to set up, and more flexible.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
91DakBuilder
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by 91DakBuilder »

OK thank you for your insight, I had no idea direct COP support for MS3 would be easy. Now I have to figure out which coils to use. Any suggestions, I've been looking at the Coil setup GM uses on there LSx engines. That being said, I could use the Ford COP module as well. So many decisions, and my truck still isn't running lol.
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by Matt Cramer »

LS coils are cheap and don't need an external driver.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
91DakBuilder
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by 91DakBuilder »

In the case of single coil operations, is a Capacitive discharge box like MSD needed, or can MS3 trigger the single stock coil for the Dakotas? I do plan on going with the LS style coils for all of the reasons you mentioned earlier. My concern now is how will the cam timing be relayed to MS3 once the Distributor is pulled out of the motor? The further I get into this the more I have to figure things out. I'm frustrated and excited at the same time which is crazy.
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by Matt Cramer »

91DakBuilder wrote:In the case of single coil operations, is a Capacitive discharge box like MSD needed, or can MS3 trigger the single stock coil for the Dakotas?
You can use either a BIP373 or an MSD box.
My concern now is how will the cam timing be relayed to MS3 once the Distributor is pulled out of the motor?
It won't. You would need to leave the distributor in - possibly with the cap and rotor replaced with some sort of cover for a cleaner look. You'll need the distributor to hold the oil pump drive in place anyway.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
91DakBuilder
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by 91DakBuilder »

Thanks again for everything. I did just realize I can not pull the distributor. I guess I could use that to get cam phasing signaling. I'm also pleased to admit that I tested everything out according to the MS3 manuals, and all voltages were excellent. I plugged the MS3X card up and no smoke...... Feeling brave, I loaded up the firmware and everything took. Of coarse I needed to download the drivers for my usb cable, but it was all good. Now All I should need to do is run he cables and hopefully I can have this thing on MS by next weekend. My fingers are crossed. As a side note, I did the bip 373 modification a while back when we first started this endeavor. So for now I'm going to go that route. If I can get it running smoothly Perhaps I'll try COP conversion later on. I'm just excited that I'm so close to getting this done. The hard parts begin now. I've got a 36:1 wheel that I purchased from DIYAutotune, however I'm curious to find out if I can just switch to a junkyard pulley off of one of the ford 3.0l or 3.8l v6's. That may be an easier route to go in terms of mounting especially where the sensor is concerned. I guess I'll soon figure it out. I'm hoping to get started on the wiring for this endeavor this week. Again Thank you sooooooo much for answering all of my off the wall questions, and thanks for the great manuals as well. There is a vast amount of information in there and on this site.
91DakBuilder
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by 91DakBuilder »

Out of curiosity, when using a single coil like in the Mopar 3.9/5.2/5.9 engines, is the correct setting for spark ms3x control, or JS10? Initially I had the settings set to MS3X, however, I recalled the modification I needed to make with the jumper and resistor, and I switched to JS10. I then struggled with locating the cam sensor correct options, and realized again, that JS10 needed to be used here as well, as the cam input comes from the distributor. This corrected my sequential fuel error problem. With this in mind, I'm curious to know if MS3X will control spark, and injection, or if it just controls the fuel injections, and the main board will control spark? I see I still have much to learn here.
Matt Cramer
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by Matt Cramer »

If you have a BIP373 in the Q16 slot, I'd use JS10 for the spark output and MS3X for the cam in.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
91DakBuilder
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by 91DakBuilder »

Matt,

is it possible to mimic what was duplicated by the guy with the 68 charger. He utilized the crank sensor off of a 03 jeep, to determine crank position on a big block Mopar. I'd like to use that sensor to determine cam position on a small block. Is this possible or crazy thinking?
Matt Cramer
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Re: MS3X install on 3.9l V6 Mopar

Post by Matt Cramer »

Easiest way to get a cam position sensor on a small block Mopar would be to take a mid '90s Magnum distributor, remove the rotor, and replace the cap with a block off plate.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
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