MS2 V3.0 lost tacho signal. Help needed urgently

[brad91]

Hey guys,

I have a Megasquirt extra i beleive v3.0 board. I beleive it is all setup for EDIS which is how I purchased it and have double checked and everything seems right. I have the stimulator and have done the full loom again in the car from scratch using the relay block.

Before fitting the ecu to the car I set it up for EDIS, 4 cylinder, wasted spark, injector size etc and tested it with the stimulator. Everything worked fine as far as I could tell.

I then fitted it to my car and tried to crank it over. Found I had no spark and no fuel. After some chasing around I found a missed earth from the ecu so it wasnt powering up and a missed 12v to EDIS. The car now has spark and still no fuel.

I have chased the signal from the EDIS controller back to the ecu. It is showing around 850rpm while cranking. The ecu is not receiving this pulse.

I then bench tested again with the stimulator and it no longer works the tacho circuit. Everything else seems to be working except the tacho input so I am assuming something has blown?? (also all 3 lights on the front of the ecu case are on which i beleive is incorrect??) Looking at the gauges in tunerstudio the temps/tps etc move but in diagnostics for the rpm square wave it shows nothing.

The next steps I tried was to follow the help page and build the LED tested with the 390ohm resistor. The D37 tacho pin is lighting up however I am not sure of where that circuit goes in the ecu to follow it so if anyone has a basic map of where the circuit will flow (like a picture of the board with MSpaint lines drawn would be awesome haha) it would be awesome. Im hoping I can fix the issue and not have to buy a new ecu.

The next issue I am now having is that the ecu does not want to connect to my laptop. It has been working fine for hours and all of a sudden it connects for about 2 seconds then goes offline or tells me I have the inccorect firmware (I have spent a good few hours playing with the stim and settings previously so that cant be the case).

I am at a loss as to what to do next. I cant get it to connect to a laptop to get any datalog files not that it would help as they are completely blank as the ecu doesnt get the signal to make it do anything.

Thanks
Brad

[Matt Cramer]

I would first try reloading the firmware using the boot jumper and see if that fixes the problem with TunerStudio connecting. This problem must be fixed first.

[DaveEFI]

Can you post a link to the instructions used to configure MS for EDIS?

[brad91]

post the link I used??

Im about to give up with this I think and buy a new ecu. It now wont connect to even reload the firmware!! I bought the ecu off ebay as a 'new' item. It did work but something has gone wrong and its probably going to be easier to just buy a new ecu or swap to something like a haltec?

When you connect to reload the firmware with the boot jumper on it wont find it at all. Without the boot jumper it comes up with 'garbled reply' and then wont connect.

As it sits here plugged in to my 12v power supply I have all 3 front LEDS on, the Fidle and Pump leds on the stim.

Ill try find the link I used for EDIS and post it up

[Matt Cramer]

Can you post a screen shot of what happens when you try loading firmware using the boot jumper?

[DaveEFI]

post the link I used??

Im about to give up with this I think and buy a new ecu. It now wont connect to even reload the firmware!! I bought the ecu off ebay as a 'new' item. It did work but something has gone wrong and its probably going to be easier to just buy a new ecu or swap to something like a haltec?

When you connect to reload the firmware with the boot jumper on it wont find it at all. Without the boot jumper it comes up with 'garbled reply' and then wont connect.

As it sits here plugged in to my 12v power supply I have all 3 front LEDS on, the Fidle and Pump leds on the stim.

Ill try find the link I used for EDIS and post it up

No need to buy a new one - unlike other some makes schematics and spares for MS are readily available if it does prove to be faulty. First thing to do would be to get it checked over.

[brad91]

where do you buy the individual components? obviously diodes etc are easy but if its the main daughterboard can that be bought easily?

I will get a screenshot tonight. Going to try clean the pcb board and see if that makes any difference. I will also get some photos of my board showing exactly where everything is. Just doing my head in as it was working and now its not.

What sort of place would you take the board to for inspection? Would a computer repair place be able to test it all and fix it or is it more of an automotive electrical repair job?

Thanks for the help so far guys!!!

[jsmcortina]

where do you buy the individual components?

What country are you in?

James

[DaveEFI]

where do you buy the individual components? obviously diodes etc are easy but if its the main daughterboard can that be bought easily?

I will get a screenshot tonight. Going to try clean the pcb board and see if that makes any difference. I will also get some photos of my board showing exactly where everything is. Just doing my head in as it was working and now its not.

What sort of place would you take the board to for inspection? Would a computer repair place be able to test it all and fix it or is it more of an automotive electrical repair job?

Thanks for the help so far guys!!!

If you look at the MS build instructions, you'll find a BOM which gives DigiKey part numbers for most of the components. Obviously some things like the bare PCB and processor are MS only and have to be bought from a dealer. But pretty well all the other components are parts most decent electronics suppliers should have. It will depend on which country you live in as to where you'd get the best prices. Same with finding someone to fix it for you. It really needs someone familiar with MS repair rather than a TV repair man.

[brad91]

Im in australia so not a whole lot of megasquirt over here in the car scene im in unfortunatly. Most people here are using haltech or powerfc etc.

I have a screenshot of the error code I have.

error.jpg

[DaveEFI]

I have a desktop PC in the workshop with a proper serial port, and that usually connects first time to any MS. However, using my laptop with USB to serial adaptor, which is only used with my own MS, often needs some fiddling to get them to talk. Which port the laptop assigns to the adaptor and so on is a black art to me.
So if you can, try it on a desktop or laptop with proper serial port. If that works, the problem is with your USB adaptor or its driver etc. It's best to eliminate the most likely causes first before moving on to more complicated ones.

[brad91]

hmm that is a good idea. I have the serial-serial port somewhere still I think.
It has been working perfect though and I only use the one USB port once I got it working. Bought a new cable thinking that was it but havnt tried it yet.

I stayed up late last night with the multimeter checking diodes. Now from what I gather on the internet a diode should have around .5v drop across it (using a flash automotive multimeter with inbuilt diode check). And that should only be in one direction right?

Some of my diodes are getting that showing in both directions (swap leads end to end). Would this indicate some dodgy diodes? or would I need to remove them from the board to test properly?

[kjones6039]

I stayed up late last night with the multimeter checking diodes. Now from what I gather on the internet a diode should have around .5v drop across it (using a flash automotive multimeter with inbuilt diode check).

Just sticking my big nose in here, but in-circuit testing of diodes is not always optimal, IMO! Meaning that other components in the circuit can have an effect on the accuracy of the test.

And that should only be in one direction right?

Generally speaking, yes.

Some of my diodes are getting that showing in both directions (swap leads end to end). Would this indicate some dodgy diodes?

Not necessarily. As I pointed out above, in-circuit testing is somewhat sacrificial.

Ken

[racingmini_mtl]

In circuit testing of any individual component is meaningless (except for very exceptional and specific cases). You need to isolate a component to measure its value or check it.

Jean

[brad91]

hmm. well that makes things more complex.
Is there any testing I can do of the components to see if things are a-ok without desoldering everything in the board? If only the board was just wires. I can do 12v circuitry and soldering etc with almost perfection but pcb boards are on another level that i never learnt in my trade haha.

Here is some photos of my board. Hopefully it is ok. Flash was screwing it up. I can try get some better pictures if needed.

photo1.jpg

photo2.jpg

[DaveEFI]

hmm that is a good idea. I have the serial-serial port somewhere still I think.
It has been working perfect though and I only use the one USB port once I got it working. Bought a new cable thinking that was it but havnt tried it yet.

I stayed up late last night with the multimeter checking diodes. Now from what I gather on the internet a diode should have around .5v drop across it (using a flash automotive multimeter with inbuilt diode check). And that should only be in one direction right?

Some of my diodes are getting that showing in both directions (swap leads end to end). Would this indicate some dodgy diodes? or would I need to remove them from the board to test properly?

In circuit testing of a component may or may not give the correct reading - it depends on other things in that part of the circuit. So is not to be relied on, unless you're very good at reading and interpreting the schematic of that section.

Once bit of advice is don't start removing components for testing - there's a very real chance of damaging the PCB.

I'd first get it working with your PC and preferably a Stim. You can then check what is working and what isn't. Once you have identified a particular problem, ask for advice about fixing that. With electronics it's best to be methodical, and to take your time. A brand new MS could well give exactly the same results as your getting if the problems are external to the MS, or software related.

[brad91]

ok so I have come to the conclusion this is far beyond my reach of repair.

I have decided to simply buy another new ecu. Paying someone to repair it is likely to cost me as much as a new one or more.

So now my question is. Will the next ecu do the same thing? Should I be upgrading to the MS3 while im doing this? (not sure if I can simply plug in my d37 plug?)

Can I buy a pre-assembled unit already setup for edis 4 with the settings preloaded so all I have to do is plug it in and change a couple things and fire it up?

Or am I better off going away from the megasquirt and getting something more locally available over here and having someone fit a haltech or adaptronic? The car has blown way past budget for the purpose it was built for but I still want to finish it to prove to myself I can. Im always getting 95% through a project then scrapping it to start another (hence why i have 6 cars sitting around my place and only a few run haha)

[DaveEFI]

Having repaired lots of MS, I've not yet had one where the cost of repair was anywhere near that of a new one. Especially when it did work just fine on your stim originally.

First thing to do is to get it talking to your PC. In 99% of cases (here) where it won't, it is the PC or USB to serial adaptor which is at fault. Hence me suggesting you try it on a desktop with proper serial port. Once you've established a connection, reload the code. Then check it on the stim. Only after all this is ok would I think of fitting it to the car. And that would apply to a brand new one too.

I'm surprised there's no one in your country who repairs them. But you could always post it to Jim or me in the UK for repair if it really is faulty. I'm willing to bet it isn't.

BTW, in your pics, the boot jumper appears to be in place on the daughter card?

[brad91]

yea boot jumper is on as I was trying to reload code at the time of taking photos.

I will try the cable thing tonight. Fingers crossed it is just that.

If not how would I go about shipping it to you for repair? And how much would I be looking at for you to set it up for me so I should be able to plug it in and start the car and then start tuning?

Thanks

[brad91]

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/serial_setup.html

Just found the above link. I have performed all 3 tests. All 3 work out fine.

I then tried to change my port settings to port 1. Lost all connectivity to tunerstudio.

Reinstalled my driver and it went back to port 6 and works again with the tests.

Does this mean that there is nothing wrong with the ecu??
It will connect to tunerstudio for all of 2 seconds then drop out. Then comes up with a message saying after 4 attempts TS is going offline etc etc.

When I try the firmware loader it is still coming up with the garbled reply message as per before.

Any suggestions?