Boost Control and Methanol Injection

[Nicholas H]

Hello everyone. I am just finishing up on my MS2 board and wanted to check on a few things before I press forward.

Engine background: 2004 2.2l Ecotec, 7X trigger wheel, no cam wheel (originally was ion sensing ICM), S259sx turbo, planning about 20 psi, High Z 80 lb mototron injectors, ls1 throttle body with steeper idle control, and 4 bar map daddy upgrade
I have constructed the MS2 with intentions to run batch fire injection and have picked up newer 2010 Ecotec COP to run in wasted spark. These were free and figured it couldn't hurt over the stock shared coil packs for wasted spark. I have built the logic ignition control as per instructions using one TC4427AEPA and two (edit)-15 OHM (1/8 W) resistors. Spark A is SPR1 (cylinders 1 and 4) and Spark B is SPR2 (cylinders 2 and 3).

The first and probably the most simple of my questions is concerning the logic ignition outputs. I have jumpered these circuits to SPR1(CANH) and SPR2(CANL). Are these "spare circuits" alright to use or should I use SPR3 and SPR4?

My second question is regarding Boost control. I have purchased the kit from DIYAUTOTUNE and have found some rather nice descriptions but wanted to clarify a couple things before I jumped ahead. If you would look at the attached circuit I have found from a previous post, I am wondering about this JS2 that is used. I am currently using this junction for my steeper idle motor control. Can I still jump off of this terminal to run the "gate" circuit on the IRLZ44? And also the 12v switch (S12), is this the actual S12 that is on the MS2 PCB which is up and to the left of the MOV1 or is this switched 12v just any 12v circuit that is on with key?

boost control circuit.pdf

Lastly is a question I have about Methanol injection. If this topic is slightly too involved to combine I can gladly start a new topic. I would like to run methanol injection and have tried to read as much as possible about people using fast acting solenoids to control flow. Is there a best way to create a methanol injection circuit with the MS2? I am wondering if a fuel injector or two could be used as staged injection only using a separate pump and methanol behind them. Or is the MS2 limited to turning a meth injection system on and off?


I have also attached pictures of my MS2 at the current moment. Jumper wires are located underneath to keep everything looking clean. Other small questions I have are JS10 to IGN I do not believe I need because I am using logic control spark. Is this true? And I have placed the R43 resistor in anticipation I will need the top point to connect the drain circuit of the boost control circuit (IRLZ44). Is this advised or should I only have a jumper wire in the R43 spot?

rsz_p1010405.jpg

rsz_p1010406.jpg

My apologies for so many questions at one time and thank you in advance.

-Nicholas H

[elutionsdesign]

The first and probably the most simple of my questions is concerning the logic ignition outputs. I have jumpered these circuits to SPR1(CANH) and SPR2(CANL). Are these "spare circuits" alright to use or should I use SPR3 and SPR4?

That's fine, SPR1 and 2 are just pins 3,4 on the db37 connector, nothing else going on there.

Can I still jump off of this terminal to run the "gate" circuit on the IRLZ44? And also the 12v switch (S12), is this the actual S12 that is on the MS2 PCB which is up and to the left of the MOV1 or is this switched 12v just any 12v circuit that is on with key?

No, that you cannot do, a single processor port cannot do multiple functions. You can choose a different pin for the boost control, both JS11 and Fidle would be available to you. Yes that can be S12 or S12C on the board or any other switched 12V.

Other small questions I have are JS10 to IGN I do not believe I need because I am using logic control spark.

Correct, not needed.

As far as the methanol injection there are many ways to approach it. You are correct that you could stage injectors and that would be the only way MS2 would be able to pulse them. MS2 has several programmable outputs that can turn relays on and off. I suggest more research.

[Nicholas H]

Thank you so much for help. I will use JS11 for the boost control and use the S12 for the switched 12V. I have never navigated tunerstudio but do you manually select outputs (JS11) and designate what they are/what they will do? I plan to mount the IRLZ44 on the Q9 spot and use jumper wires for the circuit. I figure this would serve for a decent heat sink. I will look more into options for methanol injection and will probably end up creating another post asking questions I find. This is my first Megasquirt and it still amazes me the support and friendly community that is always ready to help answer questions.

Thank you again,
Nicholas H

[Nicholas H]

After researching a little bit more I am wondering if MS2 is capable of a two stage methanol injection setup. Is there program written to allow me to turn on one circuit at X psi and another circuit at X psi? A system with one pump and two solenoids. Still, if there is only one output I will not be disappointed as people have been running non modulated meth injection setups for a very long time. If MS2 does only allow one psi controlled circuit, which jumpers should I look at connecting? Any advice or information you can think of off the top of your head would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Nicholas H

[elutionsdesign]

The latest code shows 7 programmable outputs available, I'm sure you'll be using several anyway but you will find more room if you look.

[dontz125]

You might want to consider one of jbperf's IOx or TinyIOx expansion boards; they offer several more options for outputs, including on/off and PWM.

[Nicholas H]

An expansion board is definitely a viable option. I may look into after I get things running. Thank you for the suggestion. I believe at this time I may explore more of what the factor MS2 is capable of without adding on just yet. I still have the SPR4 output that is not being used, I will just have to find out how to send a signal from the megasquirt to a relay triggering the pump and solenoid. If memory serves me correct, I remember people using MS2 for nitrous and this system would be a rather similar setup.

thanks,
Nicholas H

[foster650]

Hello everyone. I am just finishing up on my MS2 board and wanted to check on a few things before I press forward.

Engine background: 2004 2.2l Ecotec, 7X trigger wheel, no cam wheel (originally was ion sensing ICM), S259sx turbo, planning about 20 psi, High Z 80 lb mototron injectors, ls1 throttle body with steeper idle control, and 4 bar map daddy upgrade
I have constructed the MS2 with intentions to run batch fire injection and have picked up newer 2010 Ecotec COP to run in wasted spark. These were free and figured it couldn't hurt over the stock shared coil packs for wasted spark. I have built the logic ignition control as per instructions using one TC4427AEPA and two 15k (1/8 W) resistors. Spark A is SPR1 (cylinders 1 and 4) and Spark B is SPR2 (cylinders 2 and 3).

The first and probably the most simple of my questions is concerning the logic ignition outputs. I have jumpered these circuits to SPR1(CANH) and SPR2(CANL). Are these "spare circuits" alright to use or should I use SPR3 and SPR4?

My second question is regarding Boost control. I have purchased the kit from DIYAUTOTUNE and have found some rather nice descriptions but wanted to clarify a couple things before I jumped ahead. If you would look at the attached circuit I have found from a previous post, I am wondering about this JS2 that is used. I am currently using this junction for my steeper idle motor control. Can I still jump off of this terminal to run the "gate" circuit on the IRLZ44? And also the 12v switch (S12), is this the actual S12 that is on the MS2 PCB which is up and to the left of the MOV1 or is this switched 12v just any 12v circuit that is on with key?

boost control circuit.pdf

Lastly is a question I have about Methanol injection. If this topic is slightly too involved to combine I can gladly start a new topic. I would like to run methanol injection and have tried to read as much as possible about people using fast acting solenoids to control flow. Is there a best way to create a methanol injection circuit with the MS2? I am wondering if a fuel injector or two could be used as staged injection only using a separate pump and methanol behind them. Or is the MS2 limited to turning a meth injection system on and off?


I have also attached pictures of my MS2 at the current moment. Jumper wires are located underneath to keep everything looking clean. Other small questions I have are JS10 to IGN I do not believe I need because I am using logic control spark. Is this true? And I have placed the R43 resistor in anticipation I will need the top point to connect the drain circuit of the boost control circuit (IRLZ44). Is this advised or should I only have a jumper wire in the R43 spot?

rsz_p1010405.jpg

rsz_p1010406.jpg

My apologies for so many questions at one time and thank you in advance.

-Nicholas H

arent the resistors supposed to be 15 ohm instead of 15k ohm? i have this set up and am in the process of installing on a ls i used 2 chips and 4 15 ohm resistors. worked good in testing. the instructions were understood to read 15r resistors which i took as 15 ohm. just asking before i get too far , and if you have any trouble that might be the culprit.

[Nicholas H]

You are absolutely correct. 15 OHM resistors are to be used after the TC4427 for logic level spark outputs. I will edit my post from above. I even listed it correct in another post of mine but for some reason I put 15K. My mistake, carry on.

[foster650]

Whew! I have been throught some trials and tribulations with mine also... Keep plugging away you will find it! Thanks for the reply also! KCCO!

[Nicholas H]

Alright so with help from elutionsdesign my MS2 properly powers up and communicates with the computer great. One problem that has occurred is that I have a pin conflict with the boost control circuit. Unless I am missing something I have come to the conclusion that the current pin, JS11, cannot be used for the boost control while I am controlling the coils using logic level outputs D14 and D16 (the error on TS goes away when boost control pin is changed to Fidle). Please correct if I am wrong but I noticed Megasquirt groups D14, D15, D16, JS4, JS5, JS7, JS10, and JS11 when using coil on plug logic level outputs. Even though I am using only 2 of these outputs this makes the rest of these outputs unable to be used for anything else? This leaves only the Fidle to control my boost control. I am slightly confused because I would have thought being a programmable output I should have had no problems using JS11.
-I am using all IAC for stepper motor control
-I would like to try to use JS10 for a tacho output
-I had hopes to control a relay for meth injection using a programmable output but depending on what is determined here I will not have anymore outputs
-I have the boost control components supplied from DIY Autotune (IRLZ44 etc)
-Where would the equivalent pin of JS11 be for Fidle? Just to change the jumper wire if need be
-I have also searched and found some suggesting the boost control circuit is not needed when using the Fidle circuit by itself http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... le#p397250

Thanks in advance,
Nicholas H

[dontz125]

Check that you have selected "wasted spark"; if you have it set for "COP" or "wasted COP" the firmware grabs D15 & JS11.

[Nicholas H]

I will definitely check this out as soon as I get home today. I currently have it set to wasted COP. Just to clarify, I am running what I would consider "wasted COP" but I am using the logic level outputs to control ignition coils similar to LS coils. Does this change your previous statement about making sure the settings are applied to "wasted spark" and not "wasted COP"? Or will setting ignition to "wasted spark" still use outputs D14 and D16 as logic level outputs to fire the coils in wasted configuration? Sorry if that got a little confusing there.

-Nicholas H

[dontz125]

Logic or high-current (BIP373 or similar driver) is all handled with hardware, and has nothing to do with the firmware settings. On a 4-cylinder engine, Wasted Spark uses two channels that trigger A-B-A-B, and you pair up your coils accordingly. Coil-on-Plug uses 4 channels that trigger A-B-C-D, and you wire your coils individually.

Wasted COP is a combination of the two; you have 4 channels and individually wired coils, but the channels are triggered AC-BD-AC-BD. This is normally used when the car is intended (eventually) for sequential ignition and injection, but the builder hasn't got the necessary crank or cam wheels and/or sensors installed yet, and wants to start driving in the mean time. It saves having to rewire the ignition harness when the missing components are added, and can also be used when troubleshooting. For an actual wasted spark installation, it's a waste of two processor pins.

[Nicholas H]

Excellent. Thank you so much for that in depth explanation. It makes much more sense now. I will confirm as soon as I am home looking at the firmware but I believe it did clear the pin conflict code when I changed to wasted spark instead of wasted COP. This news makes me very happy in that I should be able to fit a relay circuit onto the megasquirt to control a Meth Injection circuit now that I do not have to change the boost control to the Fidle circuit. But first I will complete my tacho output circuit from JS10.

Thanks again so much for taking your time to fully explain what I was not understanding,
-Nicholas H

[dontz125]

-I have also searched and found some suggesting the boost control circuit is not needed when using the Fidle circuit by itself http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... le#p397250

Hang on a sec - the board in that post was a V3.57 (SMT) board; you're using a V3.0 (through-hole) unit. Different components, different ratings.

I'm not sure what you have planned for everything, and have gotten a little confused - my apologies if I'm telling you how to suck eggs. Are you trying to use the FIdle circuit for PWM Boost Control, or just to activate a solenoid? The V3.0 FIdle circuit will cheerfully handle a solenoid, but needs to be uprated to handle the PWM function - that was in fact the original reason for the heavier components, to handle a PWM Idle valve vs a simple on-off type.

If you're looking to use PWM Boost control *and* methanol injection, I'd run the Boost Control kit off JS11, and leave the FIdle alone and use it for the solenoid.

[Nicholas H]

I currently have the Boost control running off from JS11 as the norm but I was receiving the error from the firmware that there was a pin conflict with the boost control circuit. After changing the boost control pin to Fidle the error went away so I was under the assumption that I would need to choose another pinout besides JS11 for the boost control. With the change in firmware settings to wasted spark I feel confident I can retain the JS11 boost control pinout and still have JS10 and the Fidle circuit to drive other accessories. I plan to use the JS10 for a Tacho output to a dash tach and I plan to use the Fidle for a relay circuit where a single relay will control a meth pump and a solenoid that will be activated at a predetermined PSI and maybe TPS or IAT.
I was very unsure of that Fidle circuit controlling boost control by itself so I am glad you confirmed that I can ignore that.

Thank you again so much,
-Nicholas Hatleberg

[Nicholas H]

Changed the ignition setting to wasted spark instead of wasted COP and it has solved my issue of conflicting pins. I get to retain JS11 as boost control and still have two outputs to use. I will continue with the tacho circuit and the relay circuit.

Thank you for all of your help,
Nicholas H

[dontz125]

Glad to help. Unless I've missed something, you have a third output pin, D15, that can be used if desired.