Injectors stuck on. Components changed Page 3 new results
Moderators: jsmcortina, muythaibxr
-
- Helpful MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 4:28 am
Re: Totally lost, No injection, Test results added!
Hi Luke and Matt, just desoldered the Fet driver and resoldered Q1 and Q5, voltage on cpu pins 21 and 22 goes up to 5.3v.
I guess I have a bad U4 driver right?
I guess I have a bad U4 driver right?
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 17499
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:08 pm
Re: Totally lost, No injection, Test results added!
Sounds like it.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 4122
- Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 3:33 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Totally lost, No injection, Test results added!
I always install a socket for the I.C's. I use the flashed type not the el cheapo's. Two reasons for this, Easy removal for testing and it keeps the soldering heat out of them.
Find the Manuals up top under Quick links: Manuals.
Cheers Luke
Cheers Luke
Re: Totally lost, No injection, Test results added!
All the ICs I've seen are designed to cope with the heat of soldering?slow_hemi6 wrote:I always install a socket for the I.C's. I use the flashed type not the el cheapo's. Two reasons for this, Easy removal for testing and it keeps the soldering heat out of them.
Rover SD1 3.5 EFI
MS2 V3
EDIS
Tech Edge O2
London UK.
MS2 V3
EDIS
Tech Edge O2
London UK.
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 9128
- Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 6:51 am
- Location: Quebec, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Totally lost, No injection, Test results added!
You can definitely kill a chip when soldering it. It usually happens if you apply heat for too long and on the pin instead of the pad.DaveEFI wrote:All the ICs I've seen are designed to cope with the heat of soldering?slow_hemi6 wrote:I always install a socket for the I.C's. I use the flashed type not the el cheapo's. Two reasons for this, Easy removal for testing and it keeps the soldering heat out of them.
Jean
Re: Totally lost, No injection, Test results added!
That can apply to transistors too. But it's a long time since I've seen those in sockets.racingmini_mtl wrote:You can definitely kill a chip when soldering it. It usually happens if you apply heat for too long and on the pin instead of the pad.DaveEFI wrote:All the ICs I've seen are designed to cope with the heat of soldering?slow_hemi6 wrote:I always install a socket for the I.C's. I use the flashed type not the el cheapo's. Two reasons for this, Easy removal for testing and it keeps the soldering heat out of them.
Jean
Rover SD1 3.5 EFI
MS2 V3
EDIS
Tech Edge O2
London UK.
MS2 V3
EDIS
Tech Edge O2
London UK.
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 9128
- Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 6:51 am
- Location: Quebec, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Totally lost, No injection, Test results added!
Of course. But the TO-220 package can usually handle much more heat than most chip and I've seen more than a few burned TO-92 packaged transistors (PN2222A and 2N3904). My point was mainly that soldering heat can be an issue.DaveEFI wrote:That can apply to transistors too. But it's a long time since I've seen those in sockets.racingmini_mtl wrote:You can definitely kill a chip when soldering it. It usually happens if you apply heat for too long and on the pin instead of the pad.
Jean
Jean
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 4122
- Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 3:33 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Totally lost, No injection, Test results added!
Try to keep in mind that for some brave souls the MS could be their first crack at soldering anything. Their soldering iron could be borrowed from their neighbors wood burning kit.
I have been building MS boards since the v2.2 days and the fet drivers were far from bullet proof back then especially without a flyback board installed.
Sure you don't see transistors in sockets but you sure do see the processors in them, so for me the fet driver also goes in a socket mostly because I am a creature of habit but also because I know what I have benefited from in the past. Reliability? well my first v2.2 is still in a driven car and still on it's original socketed fet driver.
I have been building MS boards since the v2.2 days and the fet drivers were far from bullet proof back then especially without a flyback board installed.
Sure you don't see transistors in sockets but you sure do see the processors in them, so for me the fet driver also goes in a socket mostly because I am a creature of habit but also because I know what I have benefited from in the past. Reliability? well my first v2.2 is still in a driven car and still on it's original socketed fet driver.
Find the Manuals up top under Quick links: Manuals.
Cheers Luke
Cheers Luke
-
- Helpful MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 4:28 am
Re: Totally lost, No injection, Test results added!
so going to replace few bits, can anyone recommend any replacements from this website:
http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/en/Welcome.html
F1, F2:
MOV1:
Q1, Q5
U4:
http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/en/Welcome.html
F1, F2:
MOV1:
Q1, Q5
U4:
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 4122
- Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 3:33 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Totally lost, No injection, Test results added!
http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/e ... archDetail
http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/e ... archDetail
as for the mov this is as close as I can find. 17VRMS 22VDC 2KA.
http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/e ... view1&rb=1
There are quite a few PTC fuses on there but I can't find one that I would use, in a smallish case.
http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/e ... archDetail
as for the mov this is as close as I can find. 17VRMS 22VDC 2KA.
http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/e ... view1&rb=1
There are quite a few PTC fuses on there but I can't find one that I would use, in a smallish case.
-
- Helpful MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 4:28 am
Re: Totally lost, No injection, Test results added!
Hi Luke,
Are these replacements safe? Or would this be upgraded parts? The reason I ask is because this may become my daily driver.
Are these replacements safe? Or would this be upgraded parts? The reason I ask is because this may become my daily driver.
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 4122
- Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 3:33 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Totally lost, No injection, Test results added!
The first listed U4 is the part shown on the schematics, You should be ok there. The second Q1 and Q5 are the big sister part of the parts used in the standard MS they just switch more amps if required. As I said the MOV that is on the schematics is a 20V 3ka part and the closest I could find was 22v 2ka. The Ka is ample and the extra 2v I would not see as a deal breaker given the transients these are meant to stop are usually quite a bit higher than that. Spikes lower than that the power supply's input filter should have no problem dealing with. I could not find a PTC that I was happy with as a good replacement for the standard part.
Find the Manuals up top under Quick links: Manuals.
Cheers Luke
Cheers Luke
-
- Helpful MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 4:28 am
Re: Totally lost, No injection, Test results added!
Thanks again Luke i have just ordered all the bits needed, do the LEDs on board have to be 2v or can i gt the 3v Clear type?
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 4122
- Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 3:33 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Totally lost, No injection, Test results added!
Generally it would be fine but you need to know the IF(mA) typical and max of the led to make any more comment.
Find the Manuals up top under Quick links: Manuals.
Cheers Luke
Cheers Luke
-
- Helpful MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 4:28 am
Re: Totally lost, No injection, Test results added!
We have partial life, I now have injection but for some reason I have very little spark.
I changed my LEDs to these:
http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/e ... AREA_17640
But they don't light up when the MS is powered on or trying to fire up.
Any suggestion is helpful
I changed my LEDs to these:
http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/e ... AREA_17640
But they don't light up when the MS is powered on or trying to fire up.
Any suggestion is helpful
-
- Helpful MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:39 am
Re: Totally lost, No injection, Test results added!
Have you tried flipping the polarity? that seems to be almost the same voltage, and amperage of the regular ones. Only Idea I have is that they have the anode/cathode length flipped. (Ive seen plenty of that from the ones I get off Ebay)
-
- Helpful MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 4:28 am
Re: Totally lost, No injection, Test results added!
So just want and done a quick startup log, have no RPM.
Tacho is wired on the DB37 pin 6 to JS1
Tacho is wired on the DB37 pin 6 to JS1
-
- Helpful MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 4:28 am
Re: Totally lost, No injection, Test results added!
Ok reflashed the firmware, started to get rpm signal. Tryed to start but then died again. Now everytime MS connects to TS it comes up with the dialogue box settings are different from controller. Is this the CPU finished? Are there any test? I can do with the symptoms I've provided? I have a log which I will post when I'm with my laptop.
LOG ADDED
LOG ADDED
-
- Helpful MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 4:28 am
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 6828
- Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:41 am
- Location: Walnut Creek, Calif. USA
Re: Injection working but no fire, Test results added! again
I would like to see the tune (.msq) file that goes with the run log. First, though, let's talk about the "different settings" message when you try to connect to TS. At that point, you have to choose between the TS settings, or what is already loaded into the MS ECU. I suggest you open TS and save those settings as a file in a secure place, like a USB drive that you can physically remove from the computer; no chance of over-writing it. Then connect TS to the ECU and accept the "controller settings" and post those. When you post .msq, it might help posting the old saved TS file, as well as the current ECU file, if that won't confuse you too much.