Which Multimeter to buy

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hiltonlo05
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Which Multimeter to buy

Post by hiltonlo05 »

I apologize... not exactly a megasquirt question, but I would like to hear the ms community's input on the subject..

I've already a built a MS3 with X card and looking for a nice meter for troubleshooting and general MS PCB and automotive work.

I'm not looking to spend a fortune so I know there will be some compromise on features vs value, but looking in the $125-175 range, specifically at Flukes which I see can cost as much as $6-700+. So I'm looking at their compact line of meters for now.

I'm no expert so I'm not actually sure what I really need as far as range and features. Would love to hear some feedback as to what meters you guys use or recommend for the Megasquirt/automotive hobby.

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Which Multimeter to buy

Post by DaveEFI »

A proper automotive one can be useful. With a dwell function. Really originally for checking points gap on older systems, but will give a reading from any coil. Injectors too. It should also have a higher current measuring capability than a standard DVM
A minimum/maximum memory is well worth having, as is a hold function.
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billr
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Re: Which Multimeter to buy

Post by billr »

Can you wait until tonight? I would like to offer my opinion, but gotta go for now...
jacky4566
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Re: Which Multimeter to buy

Post by jacky4566 »

For general work i have the EXTECH EX330 great little unit and includes a temp prop i have used more that I though i would.

Dwell would be nice but adding that feature puts you in a different price bracket. Not really necessary IMO. Just lookup the specs for your coil.
slow_hemi6
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Re: Which Multimeter to buy

Post by slow_hemi6 »

You want a sturdy trade quality meter that has all the features you need at a reasonable price then get a Kyoritsu 1009.
Find the Manuals up top under Quick links: Manuals. :RTFM:
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Re: Which Multimeter to buy

Post by piledriver »

The KEW 1011 has ~all the "automotive" features including Ktype TC temperature/freq/duty cycle for half the cost of the 1009(?), better feature set, less $$$.
https://www.amazon.com/Kyoritsu-1011-Au ... B009TAKI7W

The pricings kinda weird for a newer/better spec model, 1011 may just be far more popular.

I personally have an old Actron automotive DVM, it doesn't read AC ripple on a DC supply properly, but other than that it has worked well for me for 15 years.
It is almost identical to KEW 1011 function wise, none of the current Actron units are of same capability.(missing TC for example)
It cost a LOT more than $40. Might have to modernize, as you can't have too many DVMs.
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hiltonlo05
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Re: Which Multimeter to buy

Post by hiltonlo05 »

billr wrote:Can you wait until tonight? I would like to offer my opinion, but gotta go for now...
Bill, Im not running out buying one immediately...this is just a next tool purchase in the upcoming week or two type of thing. I certainly look forward to hearing your input on the matter.

And thanks for the advice guys. I'll be sure to check those out as well. I had researched the extech as well, started at the 330 and next thing I knew was looking at the 470...funny how things snowball so quickly... I'm not locked in on the Fluke brand, but a few people who know a LOT more than myself have suggested I go that brand.

I've got a little <$40 craftsman dmm that I've used for years that technically works, reads all the basic stuff, capacitance, resistance, voltage... but it's a cheap meter that's seen a lot of use and abuse... the more I work with electronics, the more I find myself wanted to get better and more accurate equipment to do so. I've played with the starter set, now I'm ready for the tools I can use for the next 15 years.

I compare this to when I outgrew my Home Depot Lincoln 120 amp wire welder and got a Miller 252- 300 amp rig...at some point you need better tools for the long haul
billr
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Re: Which Multimeter to buy

Post by billr »

I have been using a Fluke 77 for over 30 years and have never regretted the cost, but there were really few alternatives to the Fluke back then. Maybe B&K, but they tended to be over-priced.

I can't recommend any particular brand or model, but have a few comment on features mentioned to look for:

1) Voltage - At least 600VAC and VDC. Most folks won't need more than that, even if working in an industrial plant or with old tube-type electronics. On the low end, be able to read anything in the 1-500 mA range, AC and DC. Mine is DC-only and tops out at 320mA. It is good "enough", but I have wanted AC and a bit more range at times.

2) Current - Again, both AC and DC, as much as you can get, but about 10A is realistic. Fortunately, it looks like all modern meters are fused now; I have to be careful! Similar to voltage, you need resolution for current measurements down in the 1-500mA range. I thought about recommending a clamp-on meter for AC/DC amps, but that limits the selection and bumps the price up; especially for DC. An add-on current clamp is probably more practical for the few times you will need it.

3) Resistance - 1/10 ohm to 20 Megohm is enough. Higher than 20M is very rare in modern low-voltage electronics. On the low end, even meter leads/contacts can show .3 ohms or so. Any measurements down in that range are "iffy" with most GP meters.

4) Capacitance - I haven't seen much need for that, have only lusted after it when working with L-C tuned circuits, which you will probably never deal with. Most (all?) of the MS caps are simple filters, value isn't critical.

5) Inductance - Do any reasonable-priced meters even have it?

6) Range Hold/Manual - Yeah, you want that, auto-ranging can drive you nuts at times! This is not the same as "reading hold"...

7) True rms - I have had no need for this, but it is probably near-standard now. Don't pay extra for it.

8) Dwell - I haven't needed to measure that for about the same 30 years, since the last time I was concerned with getting the ignition points on my C3 "just right"! We just set dwell now and forget it. You can't change it with stock systems, and if you don't trust MS to do dwell correctly, then there is a lot else you are going to want to keep tabs on... better get a good scope.

9) RPM - Another one of little use these days.

10) Duty-cycle - That's one you should look for. How many times do we discuss fussing with it in relation to injectors or PWM of idle/boost/fuel/etc?

11) Frequency - Another one I think you will want. No need for over 100kHz for your purposes, I think.

12) Accuracy - Any of these measurements I would want to be within 1% of reading (not full-scale); plus the "1-digit", of course.

13) Continuity Beeper - They all have it, right? It's useful. The diode check that is usually with it is of no real thrill to me, the ohmmeter can do that.

14) Transistor Check - I wouldn't trust it, much less pay extra. There are simply too many types of "transistor" for this to be anything other than a crude test. Again, the ohmmeter can do that.

15) Leads - It will probably come with fairly blunt probe tips. You need those for much work, but will also need some with a very sharp tip to pierce oxides when making fussy measurements. You won't use those sharp ones on everything... if you want to keep them sharp. Also, figure on some leads with alligator-clips.

16) TC/Thermistor Read - A type K thermocouple read would be useful, but I wouldn't insist on it. Thermistor read is "iffy", it would probably be for a specific thermistor type, and we are well-aware that there are GM-type and "others". (The type K TC is broad-range and widely-used).

Enough for now? I need to get to my ice-cream!
DaveEFI
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Re: Which Multimeter to buy

Post by DaveEFI »

Dwell is handy if you have an ignition fault. With a passive coil, it will give a reading if the coil is being fired. It will also show if an injector is being driven. There are other ways of doing the same, but I find it of use in the field.

But I have several DVMs. A Fluke which I keep on the bench. With what they cost in the UK I'm not going use that in the garage. The one I did get for car stuff with the dwell meter cost about 40 gbp on Ebay and has been fine.

For household testing in the UK with 240v, I use a proper device for that use. I've had a meter with an ordinary rotary switch flash over on 240v due to dust on the tracks, so prefer one designed for high voltage from the out - as you don't need all the functions of a DVM for that anyway.

Regardless of make, you may well have to invest in a good test lead set. PVC cable is a PITA. You need decent flexible silicone ones.
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elaw
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Re: Which Multimeter to buy

Post by elaw »

Is this for automotive work only? If so IMHO many of the suggestions here are overkill.

I own 3 multimeters. The first is a nice HP benchtop one - its main appeal is that it's always in the same place above my electronics workbench so I never have to go looking for it. :lol:

The second is a Fluke 80 series that I paid around $150 for about 20 years ago which I love and use for all sorts of things.

But for automotive use, I use a meter I got for free with a purchase I made, that if bought from Harbor Freight would probably cost no more than $10.00. With regard to working on cars, I've only ever found two issues with it: the 2-foot-long leads that came with it are sometimes too short, and lack of a high amps range once in a blue moon is a problem... then I go grab the Fluke.

To me a cheesy meter is the best choice for automotive work... high accuracy is rarely if ever needed, and if my $10 meter gets scratched and/or greasy or gets cracked by being dropped or something hitting it, it won't ruin my day. If that happened to my Fluke I would not be a happy camper.

Two other tips: while a "dwell" function would be important if you're working with a points-type ignition system, for modern uses like determining if injectors or coils are being pulsed, you can get an approximation just by reading DC volts. If you read 12 volts it's on all the time, if zero it's off all the time, if you read 3 volts it's being pulsed at about 25% duty cycle. I will admit I'm a little spoiled in that I can go grab an oscilloscope if I really need to know *exact* duty cycle, but in all the time I've been working with Megasquirts I've never seen a duty cycle off by that small an amount. Usually if there's a problem with a PWM output, it'll either be on or off all the time, or the output will be inverted and therefore the duty cycle will be dramatically incorrect: 5% becomes 95%, 20% becomes 80%, and so on. A meter set to read DC volts will show such a discrepancy easily.

And as far as high amps ranges go, they're nice to have but they never completely do the job. My Fluke has a 10-amp range but for a heater fan that draws 15 amps that won't do the job, nor will it work for a radiator fan that draws 30A or a SAI pump that draws 40. Never mind the 150A output from your alternator or the 200+ amps the starter draws. So you're always going to have some limitation no matter what meter you buy.
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Re: Which Multimeter to buy

Post by ashford »

for automotive use the most practical is an el cheapo deluxo. i have splurged and bought nice ones but they end up falling into fans on running engines, getting run over, left under the hood. i do have a nice radioshack one i bought for $120 20 years ago but that stays at home and an old otc that hasnt bit the dust. i have had the $5 cen-tec that had more use than the $150 mac one that had autorange that made me avoid using it. currently i am using(mostly) an older craftsman that is not autoranging.
billr
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Re: Which Multimeter to buy

Post by billr »

Oops, I forgot one:

That "analog" bar display? I never have found that useful on my old Fluke 77, it's too jerky and just not the same as a real analog needle. Maybe modern ones are better?
hiltonlo05
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Re: Which Multimeter to buy

Post by hiltonlo05 »

Bill, excellent break down as always, much appreciation for taking the time to share. That's a good bullet point list of what to shop for.

This meter will likely stay out of the garage and be used only for the precision work. (Pcb and MS stuff mostly) My little cheap craftsman will suffice for general automotive and household work, and as some one stated, I won't lose sleep if I break a 8 year old lower end craftsman.

One of the Flukes I'm looking at I believe had the dwell function as well as duty cycles and true rms. Again, that may be over kill and would be covered by a scope (which I also want to add to my tool collection down the road, but that's another topic for another day)

You guys have been very helpful, thanks again for your input.
DaveEFI
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Re: Which Multimeter to buy

Post by DaveEFI »

I'd not bother with dwell if it's going to be a bench only meter. I find it useful for fault finding on the car, sometimes. But I have a different DVM for car stuff. One which includes decent temperature measurement can be useful for calibrating sensors.
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jammy86
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Re: Which Multimeter to buy

Post by jammy86 »

If you can afford it a Fluke 179 and a set of these http://www.fluke.com/fluke/m3en/accesso ... ?PID=56751 and you wont regret it. The small probes are a little less rugged than the normal size ones but if you take care of them they'll last.
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Re: Which Multimeter to buy

Post by Suprazz »

Take a look at the wireless Mooshimeter. https://moosh.im/mooshimeter/specs/

Its not the best multimeter in the world but it could be very useful and good enough for debugging and measuring things!
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