No ignition

[Mike Coles]

I've assembled my MS2 and tested it on the bench using JimStim, and everything has gone perfectly. Installed in the car, and started to go through all the input and output testing, also pretty good - injectors, idle control, fuel pump, etc.
But I cannot get any output at all from the ignition on pin 36. I have configured it for direct (high output via Q16) operation of the coil, using mechanical distributor.
I have checked jumpers (IGBTIN - JS10, IGBTOUT - IGN, R43 installed, R57 not installed, JS10 - IGN not installed) and can find no construction errors.
I haven't yet started component level fault finding, and am still unsure whether my problem is there, or in the setup, or the Tuner Studio settings.
I've attached my .msq, which is a work in progress - can anyone see where I am going wrong? I am quite prepared to have pointed out that I have missed something glaringly obvious to the initiated!

[DaveEFI]

Since it's installed in the car, have you got a tach signal? Without that, MS will do nothing. Do a log when cranking - that should show the RPM at cranking - something like 200 rpm.

[billr]

OP, are you saying there is no spark in TS "test mode"?

[Six_Shooter]

OP, are you saying there is no spark in TS "test mode"?

This is what I as about to ask as well as:

How do you have the power to the coil connected? Do you have it to a 12V switched source, or do you have it powered from the fuel pump relay as some people do?

[Mike Coles]

Thanks for your interest.
I am not up to the point of cranking yet. I have been testing inputs and outputs with the unit in the car, so that my wiring loom is included in the tests. I am using TunerStudio test mode - injectors, PWM idle valve, and and fuel pump all activate OK, but not the ignition.
I removed it from the car and connected it to the Stim, and same result. The stim INJ and FP lights activate when asked, but not the IGN, either with Stim RPM dialled up a bit, or driven by the TunerStudio Output Test Mode - Inj/Spk.
I notice that the Assembly Instructions suggest a jumper for this mode of operation (high output direct to coil) IGBTIN - JS10, whereas the Hardware Manual at 5.3.1.1 says 330 ohm resistor 1GBTIN - top of R26 instead.
Next step is to look at the schematics and find out if this is significant or not.

[Mike Coles]

Referring to Six_Shooter's question - I have the coil powered direct via a fuse from the main IGN relay, although I intend to change it to the FP relay later for safety.
However, since it didn't work first up, that's no longer the issue because I can't get it to work even on the bench. PIN36 on the DB37 doesn't go low, so it won't indicate on the Stim (or trigger the coil even if it is correctly powered up).
I should add that I am quite experienced at electrical and electronic stuff, but am still a bit daunted by this my first engine management project. I built the unit from a component kit and installed it with my own wiring loom in the car myself, and haven't had any real problems with it up to this point.

[DaveEFI]

Thanks for your interest.
I am not up to the point of cranking yet. I have been testing inputs and outputs with the unit in the car, so that my wiring loom is included in the tests. I am using TunerStudio test mode - injectors, PWM idle valve, and and fuel pump all activate OK, but not the ignition.
I removed it from the car and connected it to the Stim, and same result. The stim INJ and FP lights activate when asked, but not the IGN, either with Stim RPM dialled up a bit, or driven by the TunerStudio Output Test Mode - Inj/Spk.
I notice that the Assembly Instructions suggest a jumper for this mode of operation (high output direct to coil) IGBTIN - JS10, whereas the Hardware Manual at 5.3.1.1 says 330 ohm resistor 1GBTIN - top of R26 instead.
Next step is to look at the schematics and find out if this is significant or not.

You confused by saying everything was working on the Stim.

These are the instructions for connecting to a single coil.

- BIP373 (marked as 30115) needs to be installed in Q16 with a mica insulator.
- Jumper IGBTOUT-IGN.
- Connect a 330R 1/4W resistor between IGBTin and the top of R26.
- Ensure R57 is absent.
- Ensure R43 is fitted or jumpered.
Typical settings
Spark Output = Going High
Dwell Type = Standard Dwell
Dwell ~ 3ms for a standard coil

[Mike Coles]

I can see (now) how I misled you - sorry about that. My original testing on the Stim (following the assembly instructions) did not include injector or ignition output, so I saw no problem at that time.
There is a conflict between the assembly instructions I followed and the hardware manual - I'll now try the setup that the hardware manual suggests, which agrees with you.
I'll let you know how I go, but it might be a day or two. Thanks again for your advice.

[DaveEFI]

Think even the early Stim had LEDs which flashed with the injector driver outputs. Not sure about the ignition output, though. A JimStim has 'spare' LEDs which can be jumpered to show what you want. I'd always check everything is functioning on the bench before installing on the car.

[Mike Coles]

I have spark!
The change of jumper to D14 fixed the problem, but I didn't know it. Now this gets a bit embarrassing - I was looking at pin36 for ignition pulses with a multimeter and couldn't see any. It then dawned on me that with 3ms dwell the analogue meter wouldn't even flinch, and the signal may actually be there. To make matters worse, when I had it on the Stim, I forgot that I needed to jumper the IGN LED to IGN, so little wonder I was getting no indication of ignition pulses.
Anyway, I now own a lovely new logic probe, the pulses can be seen at the coil (and even on the Stim now), and I get a good healthy spark on a spark plug connected to the HT.
I am still a bit puzzled though, about the need to use D14 (which is identified as "INJ PULSE") for ignition rather than JS10.
And that my assembly instructions clearly indicated DS14 is injection, and JS10 is ignition output.
But, all's well that ends well, so I can continue on my way and hopefully get this thing running and tuned for an event in a couple of weeks. I really appreciate your help, especially DaveEFI.

[prof315]

I have spark!
I am still a bit puzzled though, about the need to use D14 (which is identified as "INJ PULSE") for ignition rather than JS10.
And that my assembly instructions clearly indicated DS14 is injection, and JS10 is ignition output.
But, all's well that ends well, so I can continue on my way and hopefully get this thing running and tuned for an event in a couple of weeks. I really appreciate your help, especially DaveEFI.

The only assembly instructions you should use are the ones in the manuals linked at the top of the page. All of the hardware manuals have assembly instructions for their respective MS version. Using the megamanual or other sources of info found using search engines will bite you in the hind end every time.

[Mike Coles]

Thanks for the advice...but for me it's come a bit late. As a complete newbie when I started this project, I really didn't understand the relationship between DIY Autotune, Meqasquirt, MSExtra, Megalog, Megamanual, TunerStudio, Log Works and all the other bits and pieces possibly involved. All I knew was I bought a kit from someone on the other side of the world via the internet, and there was a whole heap of info out there on the www to help me with it.
I have since sussed it out a bit, but please understand that I started from square one and didn't even know that Megamanual was someone else's work; in fact, other than the one issue I had, I found it to be very easy to use and overall excellent.
After all that, thanks for the advice, and the same to the others who have chipped in. I might meet some of you again when I move beyond "Board Assembly and Testing" and will undoubtedly be looking for more advice.