MS3X Build - Capacitors

Ask questions about DIY board assembly issues, fault finding and testing. (Covers all Megasquirt versions and board.)

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garrycol
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MS3X Build - Capacitors

Post by garrycol »

I am building my MS3X and am at the stage of doing the capacitors.

The instructions say that if you are not using a coil then capacitor C30 goes into the H1 Boot position and not the position for C30 on the circuit board. Seems straight forward except that the accompanying pic has the C30 capacitor in the C30 position on the circuit board so a little confusing.

So I assume that C30 does go into the H1 Boot position but what goes into the C30 position? - I assume nothing but am not going to proceed until I am sure.

Can someone please clarify?

Thanks

Garry
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Re: MS3X Build - Capacitors

Post by jsmcortina »

Leave the C30 spot empty.

James
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garrycol
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Re: MS3X Build - Capacitors

Post by garrycol »

Thanks - thought so but just needed to confirm.

Cheers

Garry
garrycol
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Re: MS3X Build - Chips

Post by garrycol »

I haven't looked at this for some time - now up to putting some of the chips on the board - they need to go the right way around with the notch on the chip match the notch mark on the board.

Looking at installing U3, U4 and U6 - no problems with U4 and U6 as they have a notch but the 6 pin U3 does not have any notch - so how do I determine which way U3 goes?

Thanks

garry
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Re: MS3X Build - Capacitors

Post by jsmcortina »

If there isn't a notch, there should be a dot to indicate pin 1. The writing will also be the same way around as the other chips.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

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garrycol
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Re: MS3X Build - Capacitors

Post by garrycol »

Thanks James - helpful as always.

Cheers

Garry
garrycol
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Re: MS3X Build - Chips

Post by garrycol »

Another - better to be safe rather than sorry later question.

In the instructions it says that U7 - LM2904 is being replaced by MC 330772 but my U7 chip is MC34072 - so is this just an update I dont need to worry about or a mistake?

Likewise Chip U4 is supposed to be IXD1404 but the one I have is IXD1604 - anything to be concerned about?

Thanks

Garry
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Re: MS3X Build - Metal Strip - heat sink

Post by garrycol »

Sorry another clarification - he instructions say to put the metal strip (heat sink) in place - now there is no metal strip in the parts.

Can I assume that the metal strip across the top of the circuit board is the required metal strip - already in place.

Image

thanks

garry
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Re: MS3X Build - Capacitors

Post by jsmcortina »

The heatsink bar is still supllied in all kits I've bought.

James
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garrycol
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Re: MS3X Build - Capacitors

Post by garrycol »

Ok - thanks - I am totally confused now.

I will go back to the supplier.

Cheers

garry
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Re: MS3X Build - Capacitors

Post by Matt Cramer »

garrycol wrote:Ok - thanks - I am totally confused now.

I will go back to the supplier.

Cheers

garry
If you bought it from us, look for the heat sink bar in the same bag as the case.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
garrycol
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Re: MS3X Build - Capacitors

Post by garrycol »

Matt Cramer wrote:If you bought it from us, look for the heat sink bar in the same bag as the case.
garrycol wrote:In the instructions it says that U7 - LM2904 is being replaced by MC 330772 but my U7 chip is MC34072 - so is this just an update I dont need to worry about or a mistake?

Likewise Chip U4 is supposed to be IXD1404 but the one I have is IXD1604 - anything to be concerned about?
Thanks Matt - yes I did buy the kit from you. I haven't even opened that package so I will check.

Also any comment on my question on the chips above. I assume no issue but just wanting to check.

Thanks

Garry
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Re: MS3X Build - Capacitors

Post by Matt Cramer »

Yes. We sometimes make equivalent substitutions due to availability. The IXDI404 was actually discontinued.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
garrycol
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Re: MS3X Build - Capacitors

Post by garrycol »

Thanks Matt - yes opened the case package and there is the 1mm thick head sink - thanks

Garry
garrycol
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Re: MS3X Build - Capacitors

Post by garrycol »

So - the instructions have confused me a little :(

Do I need to install Q16 and R43?? When you come to the instructions for Q16 is says to go to Step 28 which then refers you to section 5.3 - not sure I follow so do I install Q16 and R43?

Also Instruction 18 says to install R37 and R38 along with other components but when you come to instruction 21 it implies you only need R37 and R38 if you want current limited injector drivers - huh - why not say that in instruction 18 - so I have R37 and R38 installed - do I need to remove them. Also I used heat sink paste as per the instructions but I belatedly found heat sink tape just for R37 and R38 in the kit. If I need R37 and R38 should I remove them and reinstall using the heat sink tape rather than the head sink paste.

Thanks

Garry
DaveEFI
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Re: MS3X Build - Capacitors

Post by DaveEFI »

The self adhesive heat transfer tape is for resistors R37 and R38 type that don't have a screw fixing. Think those supplied now do - so the same sort of case as the power transistors. With the screw fixing you don't need that tape - paste is fine.

Go to the schematic of the injector drivers. There are notes there which explain the options.

The only reason not to install the current limiting is if you are certain you can do without - and want to use those resistor slots on the heatsink for other things. Like say high current ignition drivers on a four cylinder wasted spark setup.

With MS3X, you may not need the V3 board injector drivers at all, as it has 8 injector drivers on the X board. But they can have other uses, and since you have the parts, might as well fit them.
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garrycol
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Re: MS3X Build - Capacitors

Post by garrycol »

DaveEFI wrote:Go to the schematic of the injector drivers. There are notes there which explain the options.

The only reason not to install the current limiting is if you are certain you can do without - and want to use those resistor slots on the heatsink for other things. Like say high current ignition drivers on a four cylinder wasted spark setup.

With MS3X, you may not need the V3 board injector drivers at all, as it has 8 injector drivers on the X board. But they can have other uses, and since you have the parts, might as well fit them.
Thanks - I have had a look but do not see any notes - I have no idea whether I need or do not need these drivers or not - I am just following the instructions for the build which assume a lot more knowledge than I have - I was told that I only needed to be able to solder components to do the build as it is straight forward.

I am finding the opposite - because of differing views in a lot of different places I am finding MS very confusing and complex. At this stage I am thinking of throwing this in the bin and just buying a US self learning injection system which is a simple plug and play system.

So for the moment I will leave R37 and R38 on the board and will install Q16 and R43 and if that causes an issue down the track I will switch to plan B and buy an off the shelf plug and play system and throw this out.

However I do appreciate your input on many requests for information from me.

Cheers

Garry
DaveEFI
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Re: MS3X Build - Capacitors

Post by DaveEFI »

I assume you have downloaded the MSX V3_Harware-1-4 PDF from the manual link at the top of this page? Go to 11 Appendix A Schematics. Then the output injector page. That shows how the driver is in three parts and the function of each is explained in the notes on that page.

The MS guide does expect you to have some experience of constructing such things. If not, you can buy it ready made.
But persevere. You will learn as you go. And having built it, will have a better understanding of how it works when you come to the tuning, etc.

It's no different from any DIY job. If you like building things and get satisfaction from that it will delight - as well as saving money. If you hate DIY, you have little option but to pay someone for a ready made solution. But finding a true plug an play solution for every possible set-up may not be as easy as it sounds.
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garrycol
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Re: MS3X Build - Capacitors

Post by garrycol »

Thanks Dave - more research required on my part.

Cheers
garrycol
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Re: MS3X Build - Capacitors

Post by garrycol »

garrycol wrote:So - the instructions have confused me a little :(

Do I need to install Q16 and R43?? When you come to the instructions for Q16 is says to go to Step 28 which then refers you to section 5.3 - not sure I follow so do I install Q16 and R43?
Sorry still confused on this - do I need to install Q16 or not??? As indicated the instructions say to go to see Step 28 which just says see section 5.3. reading it about 10 times the only place I can see anything about Q16 is in 5.3.11 (High Current Output (One) - it is an old style coil system and needs Q16 installed.

I cannot see anything about Q16 anywhere else.

So a simple question - do i need to install Q16 - the instructions are not clear on this issue.

As to the type of coils I have - not sure - they are wasted spark and the engine does run on EDIS 8 with no MS3X fitted so not sure if these will need amplifiers or not to run direct from MS3X. I am tempted to continue to use EDIS8 with the MS3X but not sure at this stage.

Help from those familiar with MS3X would be appreciated.

Thanks

Garry
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