Introducing Shadow Dash MS

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LT401Vette
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by LT401Vette »

The question is still, can we connect via USB instead of Bluetooth?
Nope, not yet... Even with 4.0 and up, most devices need super user rights. But there are cases where that is still a desirable way to connect, so it is coming.
Phil Tobin
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Supporting all MegaSquirt versions and firmwares.
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by racingmini_mtl »

kizzoalfa wrote:
UtahSleeper wrote:Even if you could connect via USB, how woulld you charge the tablet since most charge via the communication port?

Also, cant you set the tablet to go to sleep when power is not going to the power port?
Most tablets can be supplied from external PS like 5V/2A. It can be easily get from 12V battery.

The question is still, can we connect via USB instead of Bluetooth?

Can we wakeup the tablet via USB somehow? Power off / STBY maybe can be commanded by Shadowlogger if no data is received for a given period. This can solve power off / enter into stby. Phil, does this possible in Android environment?

Thanks,

Zoltan
Even once USB support is there you won't be able to get what you want. You don't understand how data is read from the MS: wakeup would not be possible because there is no data being sent by the MS until the PC or the tablet (or whatever else is connected to the MS) asks for that data. So the initiator of a data transfer is never the MS so it couldn't trigger a wakeup event.

Jean
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JAM
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by JAM »

Hi Phil,
Is there a problem with using an 'extension cord' to relocate the bluetooth unit i bought from you? so that it can be located in a different location in the car than on the ms3? if so, i am guessing it has to be a straight thru cable?
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by LT401Vette »

JAM wrote:Hi Phil,
Is there a problem with using an 'extension cord' to relocate the bluetooth unit i bought from you? so that it can be located in a different location in the car than on the ms3? if so, i am guessing it has to be a straight thru cable?
Nope, no problem at all. I do that regularly. Use the same straight through cable as you would connect to your PC/USB adapter.
Phil Tobin
EFI Analytics, helping to simplify EFI
Next Generation tuning software.
Supporting all MegaSquirt versions and firmwares.
http://www.TunerStudio.com
http://www.efiAnalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/
Support the firmware running your engine:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/donations.html
JAM
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by JAM »

LT401Vette wrote:
JAM wrote:Hi Phil,
Is there a problem with using an 'extension cord' to relocate the bluetooth unit i bought from you? so that it can be located in a different location in the car than on the ms3? if so, i am guessing it has to be a straight thru cable?
Nope, no problem at all. I do that regularly. Use the same straight through cable as you would connect to your PC/USB adapter.
thanks, this is more of an issue that my ms3 is in sight, and for other reasons the bluetooth must be out of site...

I think i have some laying around, iirc some of them are crossed over, i guess if I just check continuity on each pin that's good enough?
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by kizzoalfa »

racingmini_mtl wrote:
kizzoalfa wrote:
UtahSleeper wrote:Even if you could connect via USB, how woulld you charge the tablet since most charge via the communication port?

Also, cant you set the tablet to go to sleep when power is not going to the power port?
Most tablets can be supplied from external PS like 5V/2A. It can be easily get from 12V battery.

The question is still, can we connect via USB instead of Bluetooth?

Can we wakeup the tablet via USB somehow? Power off / STBY maybe can be commanded by Shadowlogger if no data is received for a given period. This can solve power off / enter into stby. Phil, does this possible in Android environment?

Thanks,

Zoltan
Even once USB support is there you won't be able to get what you want. You don't understand how data is read from the MS: wakeup would not be possible because there is no data being sent by the MS until the PC or the tablet (or whatever else is connected to the MS) asks for that data. So the initiator of a data transfer is never the MS so it couldn't trigger a wakeup event.

Jean
I understand how currently MS is sending the data, there is no broadcasting, it must be requested by the host. But it could change that would be the easiest part once the tablet / android side is capable. MS could broadcast data until device found and comm. start / request received. Question is: can the tablet wake up if detecting USB activity? Like a PC can wakeup for keyboard activity.

My problem is still: once you start your racecar how can you start the Android based dashboard without any manual startup routine (booting, app. start, establish comm. go.). This is why I started to ask Phil, he knows very well the android side may a wakeup via USB is possible like for CAN devices.

Thanks,

Zoltan
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kizzoalfa
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by kizzoalfa »

LT401Vette wrote:
The question is still, can we connect via USB instead of Bluetooth?
Nope, not yet... Even with 4.0 and up, most devices need super user rights. But there are cases where that is still a desirable way to connect, so it is coming.
Thanks, from my past experience a wired communication is much more robust / establish communication is much more quicker.
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by jsmcortina »

kizzoalfa wrote:MS could broadcast data until device found and comm. start / request received.
The protocol isn't a broadcast it is a reply to a request. It would need a possibly big change in comms because the tuning software wouldn't be expecting the data and how would it know when to "start talking" (i.e. requesting serial format and firmware version etc.) ?

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

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LT401Vette
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by LT401Vette »

It is, but BT is much better from android than from PC's.

You can programatically wake the device, probably need to think through the triggers though. There are quite a few options with pros and cons.
Phil Tobin
EFI Analytics, helping to simplify EFI
Next Generation tuning software.
Supporting all MegaSquirt versions and firmwares.
http://www.TunerStudio.com
http://www.efiAnalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/
Support the firmware running your engine:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/donations.html
racingmini_mtl
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by racingmini_mtl »

kizzoalfa wrote:I understand how currently MS is sending the data, there is no broadcasting, it must be requested by the host. But it could change that would be the easiest part once the tablet / android side is capable. MS could broadcast data until device found and comm. start / request received.
No that's not going to happen because, as oppose to what you think, it's not easy unless you do it for your own personal application. Changing that would break everything we currently have and would require a complete redesign of the communication protocol and all the code associated with it on the MS side and on the tuning application side.

Jean
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DeadStiff
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by DeadStiff »

Waking an android device should be easy, just supply power to it, then in the developer options set the screen to never time out while plugged in.
When the power is removed the screen will time out and the device will go to sleep.
MS3+X on 73 Karmann Ghia ignition only with LS2 truck coils firing in sequential, fuel next.
2333(103*70) Type 4 with DTM also sitting in living room just need exhaust.
kizzoalfa
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by kizzoalfa »

jsmcortina wrote:
kizzoalfa wrote:MS could broadcast data until device found and comm. start / request received.
The protocol isn't a broadcast it is a reply to a request. It would need a possibly big change in comms because the tuning software wouldn't be expecting the data and how would it know when to "start talking" (i.e. requesting serial format and firmware version etc.) ?

James
I understand that it is a big change but it is possible. MS3 can continously send "something" on the bus, like ask what is my name. This can be used to wake up anything on the bus. This is how can wakeup works. The CAN transciever can wake up for exmple the uP and power supply from sleep and the data transmitted on the bus can be served by the host.

In this case the Android device can wake up and start communication what currently doing via Bluetooth.

However I understand this is not easy to implement and not a simple limit change.

Zoltan
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jsmcortina
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by jsmcortina »

OK, let's put it another way. The firmware developers don't plan to implement that.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
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kizzoalfa
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by kizzoalfa »

DeadStiff wrote:Waking an android device should be easy, just supply power to it, then in the developer options set the screen to never time out while plugged in.
When the power is removed the screen will time out and the device will go to sleep.
Hi,

and will it wake up automatically when the external power is present again?

Thanks,

Zoltan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 75 2.0, Supercharged by Eaton M45, MS3
LT401Vette
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by LT401Vette »

I wouldn't worry about making firmware changes for wake up at this point. There are other options, whether we can get wakeup on usb power or worst case SD could poll for a controller, that would waste power. But until it is time to solve it there is no point in getting hung up on one possible solution.
Phil Tobin
EFI Analytics, helping to simplify EFI
Next Generation tuning software.
Supporting all MegaSquirt versions and firmwares.
http://www.TunerStudio.com
http://www.efiAnalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/
Support the firmware running your engine:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/donations.html
DeadStiff
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by DeadStiff »

kizzoalfa wrote:
DeadStiff wrote:Waking an android device should be easy, just supply power to it, then in the developer options set the screen to never time out while plugged in.
When the power is removed the screen will time out and the device will go to sleep.
Hi,

and will it wake up automatically when the external power is present again?

Thanks,

Zoltan
Yes
MS3+X on 73 Karmann Ghia ignition only with LS2 truck coils firing in sequential, fuel next.
2333(103*70) Type 4 with DTM also sitting in living room just need exhaust.
kizzoalfa
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by kizzoalfa »

DeadStiff wrote:
kizzoalfa wrote:
DeadStiff wrote:Waking an android device should be easy, just supply power to it, then in the developer options set the screen to never time out while plugged in.
When the power is removed the screen will time out and the device will go to sleep.
Hi,

and will it wake up automatically when the external power is present again?

Thanks,

Zoltan
Yes
Hi,

And what is the screen time out time? It is like on phones, you can set to seconds? If it is works like this than there is no need to change anything is firmware. The tablet simply will wake up as ignition is applied and hopefully start communication with MS3.

Phil, in case we go to sleep while Shadow Dash MS is running and was communicating with MS3 what going to happen next time when both party is alive again? I mean will your application be alive from communication side point of view or it need to be restarted like due to some timeout?

Thanks,

Zoltan

Zoltan
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Alfa Romeo 75 2.0, Supercharged by Eaton M45, MS3
kizzoalfa
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by kizzoalfa »

jsmcortina wrote:OK, let's put it another way. The firmware developers don't plan to implement that.

James
Thanks. Clear.
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DeadStiff
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by DeadStiff »

kizzoalfa wrote:
Hi,

And what is the screen time out time? It is like on phones, you can set to seconds? If it is works like this than there is no need to change anything is firmware. The tablet simply will wake up as ignition is applied and hopefully start communication with MS3.


Thanks,

Zoltan
That's how it should work.
MS3+X on 73 Karmann Ghia ignition only with LS2 truck coils firing in sequential, fuel next.
2333(103*70) Type 4 with DTM also sitting in living room just need exhaust.
Zaphod
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Re: Introducing Shadow Dash MS

Post by Zaphod »

You can use the "Tasker" app to switch the tablet on and off, when you connect it to a dock or other power source...
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