SD MS Freeze after car started - data transmission noise?

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kizzoalfa
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SD MS Freeze after car started - data transmission noise?

Post by kizzoalfa »

Hi,

I want to go by direct USB connection to have the most reliable connection for my tablet dashboard but it is seems like that some noise issues are not allowing to do this.

I use Galaxy TAB2 7.0 with an USB OTG adapter, connected to MS3 USB. I made a low pass filter into the data lines (D+, D-) and also there is an EMI filter block on the USB 5V to filter tablet direction. I also measured there is no noise on the D+, D-, 5V, GND after engine started but SD MS stop working after engine started and cannot recover until I remove it from the RAM from the running processes. Dashboard freeze, no reaction on exit command (double back).

Phil, I have the appdebug.txt, I attached as well,may you see there something. Over that can you help me by some log ideas, suggestion what I can use to understand the root cause of the issue.

Thanks,

Zoltan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 75 2.0, Supercharged by Eaton M45, MS3
LT401Vette
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Re: SD MS Freeze after car started - data transmission noise

Post by LT401Vette »

Is this the 1st time you tried USB? I don't actually see it connect in the appDebug.txt

Is it an FTDI cable you are using?

Are you able to connect and stay connected on the USB with the Engine off?
Phil Tobin
EFI Analytics, helping to simplify EFI
Next Generation tuning software.
Supporting all MegaSquirt versions and firmwares.
http://www.TunerStudio.com
http://www.efiAnalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/
Support the firmware running your engine:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/donations.html
kizzoalfa
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Szombathely, HUNGARY

Re: SD MS Freeze after car started - data transmission noise

Post by kizzoalfa »

Hi Phil,

when the engine off than I can stay online until I start the engine. After I start the engine, SD became unresponsive, no way to reconnect, cannot change screens neither.

I use a direct USB connection from the TAB7.0 OTG to the MS3.

I tried the MS3 serialport as well with an FTDI USB to Serial adapter, but same results.

Zoltan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 75 2.0, Supercharged by Eaton M45, MS3
LT401Vette
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Posts: 12697
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Re: SD MS Freeze after car started - data transmission noise

Post by LT401Vette »

I imagine this is the same USB cable you use from the PC, with just a OTG added?

Is SD just dropping connection, or hanging when it drops?

I was just trying to reproduce this. I was using the regular USB cable and an OTG to the tablet. It was very hard to make it react to noise. In order to make it go offline I had to wrap the USB cable around the coil :!:, then it came right back online. So I wrapped it around the coil and wire several times. That made it go offline and stay offline until I pulled the USB cable off the coil, then it came right back on line.

I'm assuming you used a cable with no filters or EMI block?

Any chance there is some type of ground loop back happening?
When you turn the engine off, does it connect back up?
Phil Tobin
EFI Analytics, helping to simplify EFI
Next Generation tuning software.
Supporting all MegaSquirt versions and firmwares.
http://www.TunerStudio.com
http://www.efiAnalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/
Support the firmware running your engine:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/donations.html
kizzoalfa
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Szombathely, HUNGARY

Re: SD MS Freeze after car started - data transmission noise

Post by kizzoalfa »

HI Phil,

this is the same cable I use for my laptop. SD is hanging when engine started and cannot recover. Never came back online.

The cable is a high speed certified I use for Canoe as well.

It can be some grounding loop but I used star structure for grounding at the battery terminal - I am an automotive EE so I hope I did harness well.

If engine stop it does not recover. Need to remove from running processes to restart.

Thanks,

Zoltan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 75 2.0, Supercharged by Eaton M45, MS3
kizzoalfa
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Szombathely, HUNGARY

Re: SD MS Freeze after car started - data transmission noise

Post by kizzoalfa »

Hi,

today I had lot of trials to find the root of the problem. Finally I found if I change my non resistor plugs to resistor type than there is no issue in data transmission and SD operation.

There are few questions what I cannot get answered and I would understand:

- why this radiated noise has effect only in case of tablet USB connection, why it is not causing any issues in case of Laptop communication (same USB cable) Both system use similar circuits regarding comm. and powered on the same way

- after I have the problem why I do I need to restart the tablet to have communication back (I tried USB direct comm, it was OK with resistor plugs, I changed to the B7EGV non resistor ones and as suspected SD comm failed, could not reconnect however I changed back to resistor plugs. I had to restart the tablet, however I removed SD from the running processes and also force cleared RAM.

-after noise related disconnection and freeze the BT comm. neither worked. I could pair SD with MS3 but could not connect. After I restarted the tablet MS3 to SD communication was established over BT in 5 seconds

Thanks,

Zoltan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 75 2.0, Supercharged by Eaton M45, MS3
LT401Vette
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 12697
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:07 am
Location: Moorseville, NC
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Re: SD MS Freeze after car started - data transmission noise

Post by LT401Vette »

- why this radiated noise has effect only in case of tablet USB connection, why it is not causing any issues in case of Laptop communication (same USB cable) Both system use similar circuits regarding comm. and powered on the same way
You have me thinking here, that maybe it is the tablet itself getting the noise, not the cable. I had someone that had bought a Lenovo Laptop, it was a nice laptop, but it had terrible drop out issues no matter what we did with the cables. Plug another laptop into the same cables and all was fine. So it seemed that laptop itself is what piced up the noise. This could be a similar problem with your tablet.
- after I have the problem why I do I need to restart the tablet to have communication back (I tried USB direct comm, it was OK with resistor plugs, I changed to the B7EGV non resistor ones and as suspected SD comm failed, could not reconnect however I changed back to resistor plugs. I had to restart the tablet, however I removed SD from the running processes and also force cleared RAM.

-after noise related disconnection and freeze the BT comm. neither worked. I could pair SD with MS3 but could not connect. After I restarted the tablet MS3 to SD communication was established over BT in 5 seconds
Perhaps the noise is hanging the USB chip on the tablet, especially if it is the tablet itself picking up the noise.
Phil Tobin
EFI Analytics, helping to simplify EFI
Next Generation tuning software.
Supporting all MegaSquirt versions and firmwares.
http://www.TunerStudio.com
http://www.efiAnalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/
Support the firmware running your engine:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/donations.html
kizzoalfa
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Szombathely, HUNGARY

Re: SD MS Freeze after car started - data transmission noise

Post by kizzoalfa »

Hi Phil,

I had a full day of testing today, and SD MS running very well. I am happy with the transition from offline to online as well.

Zoltan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 75 2.0, Supercharged by Eaton M45, MS3
kizzoalfa
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Szombathely, HUNGARY

Re: SD MS Freeze after car started - data transmission noise

Post by kizzoalfa »

kizzoalfa wrote:Hi Phil,

I had a full day of testing today, and SD MS running very well. I am happy with the transition from offline to online as well.

Zoltan
Hi,

Today while tested the rendering issue I changed screen while SD was online and right after the screen change SD frozen like did before the spark plug change. (Screen freeze, no response for screen change neither)

I do not know if this is the old behavior or something else.


What is sure the connection cold not be established until I restarted the tablet, May the FDI driver did not respond or remained opened by the app and no other function could access it ( I tried to start MSDROID as well in the same run cycle, it could not connect neither.)

I attached the appdebug may it help.

Thanks,

Zoltan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 75 2.0, Supercharged by Eaton M45, MS3
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