Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

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Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby tapiol » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:37 am

Hi all!

I would like to make the shadow dash as my only instrument in my dashboard. This means permanently installing it. I know some of these things have already been covered in here individually and I've been going thru numerous topics but I would like to get some final tips. Let's make this one single thread that covers everything you need to know about permantent installation.

What tablet to choose? I've been looking to some lover-end tablets like acer and lenovo, they both have IPS panels so thats good. What else I should look for in tablet? Mind you it's going to be totally disassembled for my installation.

Connection to MS, wired or bluetooth? wired should be little faster?

and then the most difficult part, how to make the android tablet act like oem screen gauges. By that I mean how to configure the tablet so it automatically wakes up straight to SD when I turn on ignition and goes to sleep mode when I turn off the ignition? I'm also thinking about hard wiring the tablet with 5v regulator to my car battery so it never runs out of juice.

Thanks guys
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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby LT401Vette » Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:10 am

By that I mean how to configure the tablet so it automatically wakes up straight to SD when I turn on ignition and goes to sleep mode when I turn off the ignition?


That is a feature I have promised to have soon :)
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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby tapiol » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:47 am

LT401Vette wrote:
By that I mean how to configure the tablet so it automatically wakes up straight to SD when I turn on ignition and goes to sleep mode when I turn off the ignition?


That is a feature I have promised to have soon :)


Thank you Phil, that will be awesome! And thank you for all the hard work you have done for the community!

Is it possible for you to code the SD so that there would be a option to override every other task and protocol in android tablet and set it so that the one and only purpose of that tablet would be running the shadow dash?
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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby LT401Vette » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:53 pm

Is it possible for you to code the SD so that there would be a option to override every other task and protocol in android tablet and set it so that the one and only purpose of that tablet would be running the shadow dash?


That probably sounds like a task for the setup of your image. There may be some ways to make SD auto launch on boot or replace the launcher. I would have to look into that.
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http://www.TunerStudio.com
http://www.efiAnalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/
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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby mrx79 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:35 am

Hallo,

any news on that topic so far?
i would also like to ask if there would be any way to have a laptop with TunerStudio active in parallel to a maybe permantly installed ShadowDash?!
Maybe an option to run ShadowDash in a CAN mode via CAN and do the actual tuning via RS232 via TunerStudio?

Best regards
Honda CRX B16A1 Turbo | MS3 in construction | pre1.5.1 beta7 Firmware | 24/1 Dual Wheel | COP ignition | 725cc ID injectors
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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby racingmini_mtl » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:19 pm

I don't know about ShadowDash but TunerStudio can tune and datalog through CAN. However, you need a CAN interface between the PC and the MS that understands the MS CAN protocol. Once you have that, communication from TS to the MS is completely transparent.

I have been using my own USB-CAN adapter for quite a while and I can have 2 instances of TunerStudio communicating with one MS at the same time with one on the serial port and one on the CAN bus. Of course, you don't want to change the tuning parameters from both sides but you can do it on one side and datalog on the other side. I assume ShadowDash could be used to datalog instead of the second TS instance; what I don't know is if it can do it over the CAN bus (through the USB-CAN adapter).

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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby mrx79 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:22 pm

Interesting idea Jean,

i personaly would only need ShadowDash to display Speed, Eng. Rev's and maybe MAP in front of my eyes in the dash while street tuning and then have TunerStudio for the normal datalogging and parameter changing when stopped after a few pulls.

So CAN might be a solution... but don't know if ShadowDash supports that...
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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby LT401Vette » Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:46 pm

As long as you are connecting to Jean's USB to CAN adapter, SD should work the same as an instance of TS.
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http://www.efiAnalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/
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http://www.msextra.com/doc/donations.html
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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby mrx79 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:08 am

racingmini_mtl wrote:However, you need a CAN interface between the PC and the MS that understands the MS CAN protocol. Once you have that, communication from TS to the MS is completely transparent.

So i assume you build one your own?
Is there somewhere any kind of documentation/schematic or source to get such an adapter and how to connect TunerStudio / ShadowDash via CAN to the MS2?

I assume i have to connect the normal CAN pin's on the CPU board like any other CAN communication like described in the manual PDF and then configure TS/SD to use USB?!? The can-usb converter does the rest?

@LT401vette: how about the feature of automatic bootup/start SD once the ignition key is turned on. I think such feature would be essential for an every day 24/7 installation and dash replacement.

Best regards
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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby racingmini_mtl » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:18 pm

This is my adapter:

Image

It's a short USB cable (a few inches) and a long CAN cable (about 6 feet). It connects to a standard PC USB port and it's viewed as an FTDI USB serial adapter. It has a completely isolated CAN interface and the connector is a 4 pole 3.5mm plug that has a 12V, CANH, CANL, ground connection for the CAN bus and powering the CAN side of the board; the USB side of the board is powered from the USB port. You just need a 3.5mm jack that connects to the MS 12V, ground and the 2 CAN bus pins CANH and CANL.

To use it in TunerStudio, you simply do the same thing you would with any FTDI USB serial adapter. The one exception is that you need to specify in your MS project that the CAN commands are to be used (which should be the default in recent releases). Also, you can't ask TS to scan the ports because TS cannot scan the CAN bus and the only thing you will see is the USB-CAN adapter. So you need to choose the correct ini file manually.

The original intention was to make this available for sale and there was some discussion on my forum: http://forum.jbperf.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=381. However, for different reasons that never came to be. I do have what is needed to assemble a few units if there is some demand for it. But it would not be something cheap at around $100.

There is another alternative: the latest TinyIOx code can also be used for serial to CAN communications. You just need a USB to serial adapter with the correct connector such as the one shown here: http://forum.jbperf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1558#p8536. The TinyIOx has the advantage of being usable for other functions but it is not an isolated interface and it is not dedicated to the task so there might be conflicts if many TIOx features are used.

If you want to discuss that further, it might be a good idea to do that in a separate thread either on this forum (in the expansion boards forum) or on my forum.

Jean
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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby walterclark1 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:18 am

This is one of this winter's projects for my race car. I have had a version of my desired SD dashboard running on an old smartphone (Galaxy S4) as an aux gauge of sorts and that connected via bluetooth to my MS3 for a couple seasons now and it seemed to work well except for the very small screen being hard to read while racing. I ended up reducing the number of things shown on it and making them large so they were easy to see.

For a tablet, I had purchased one of those $99 cheapo models a couple years ago mainly because it claimed "host mode" support so the possibility of having it hard wired to the MS3 was there. I abandoned this tablet for several reasons. The display resolution and brightness/contrast sucked. The tablet was slow. It frequently "went away" leaving me with no updates for several seconds at a time while it did other things...slowly. While it did run a version of Android, it was highly customized and stripped down, and not update-able. It had several bugs that would never be fixed that caused apps to crash and severely limited what I could run and which prevented me from loading any custom firmware to improve it.

So, I decided to look for a used higher end Android. Around a 10" screen, at least 1080 resolution, high quality display, fast, and with host mode support. I settled on one of the around 10" Samsung tablets, either a Galaxy or Nexus. This fall I finally found and won a good used Nexus10 on ebay for the right price (meaning within spitting distance of $100).

It needed some updating including going back to the stock firmware and updating the OS, but it pleases me to no end. Very fast...Over bluetooth there is no noticable lag of the dynamic gauges such as the tach. I kept the number of apps to a minimum and loaded a startup manager app to disable auto startup of all the apps and utilities not needed to make SD run with bluetooth. Like many, or maybe most Androids with host mode support (OTG is what the USB folks call it) the USB port will not both charge the tablet AND act as a host for the MS3 on the USB. Since there is no separate charger port and not even the pogo port will allow charge during host mode, I have opted to go with the bluetooth interface. I know I could hack the tablet and make the charge and host modes work at the same time but I an holding off on that and dont plan to try it unless something doesnt work out with the bluetooth while racing. This gives me the USB port to charge thru and keep the tablet up. I installed a dedicated USB charge port in the car and I also power the bluetooth adapter on the MS3 with it. By having both of them connected to the same power source (separately switched 12V) I can boot up the tablet, start SD and connect to the MS3 bluetooth adapter when the ignition is still off. Then when the engine is started it takes less than 6 seconds for SD to establish a connection with the MS3 processor and start displaying valid data. Otherwise bootup takes upwards of a minute and getting to the functioning SD display from when the SD app is started takes another 20 seconds. It would be nice, and I may may make it so that the screen is automatically switched on and off with the ignition. I would probably do that with a oneshot that acts in parallel with my external switch and triggers when the ignition is switched on and off.

To mount the tablet in the car in place of the original instrument cluster (I previously replaced the "dashboard" with my own custom design which used the OEM instrument cluster but had enough flat surface area available to mount the tablet instead) I first bought a case for the tablet...the Hard Candy Cases Shock Drop. It provides a nice book-like shape that is easier to build a frame around. Then I made a frame from 1"x1" angle aluminum and attached that to the dashboard frame. The tablet slips into the frame and an aluminum facia goes over it to hold it in place and neaten things up a bit.

One thing that my mounting did was to make the power button on the top edge inaccessible. So I opened up the tablet and added a pair of wires to the momentary power switch inside the tablet. These wires lead out to a momentary switch on the facia so I can either boot up, power down, enter screen off or screen on modes without direct access to the button on the tablet.

This is a picture of the tablet mounted in the dashboard before the facia was made. Note that the colors on the display are washed out by the camera because of the darkness surrounding the bright display. The near white rectangles shown in the display are the backgrounds of digital readout gauges indicating alarm conditions and are bright red or yellow when on. In this picture all the reds look like pale pink.

Image

This is a test fit of the facia: After this pic it was painted flat black and the edges of the opening for the tablet was finished. I keep trying to get a decent picture of the completed installation but something is always wrong with it...very bright display with very dark surroundings. Works for my eyes but not so much for the camera.

Image

Picture of the SD dashboard I am using as seen on the Nexus10. Its not connected to the bluetooth/MS3 in this shot and the brightness/contrast is a shade lower than when it's connected.

Image
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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby Bolt-on » Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:42 pm

We are running a 7" Samsung Tab 4, just under $150 on Amazon. Kind of expensive (unless you compare it to any digital dash) but it powers up quickly, has great response, and is very clear.

It is powered by a switched USB cable. It turns on and connects within about ten seconds of starting the engine. The touch screen needs to be swiped on startup. It also needs to be shut off with a press of the upper right power button. We found a simple, secure way to mount it without blocking any of the stock gauges in the 71 Buick. We used double sided tape to secure a small aluminum plate to the dash. It slides in from the side and the USB cable keeps it in place.
DIYPNP 1989 MR2 turbo Lemons car, MS3 Pro LQ4 twin turbo 1971 Riviera, MS2 Chevy 350 1992 Humvee (in process)
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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby suberimakuri » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:36 am

Bolt on, does it charge as well through that cable?
I'm trying to find both a 7" tablet and a suitable USB cable that will connect to both Ms and a separate switched power source.
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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby benckj » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:56 am

This thread is right along the lines to what I intended to do when I went with MS. Mine is still a road car with some amateur track time. I don't want to completely eliminate stock cluster but want a quick booting automatic SD display. Seems like best use of space and functionality is a double DIN stereo with 7" screen. Plenty of cheaply units with high resolution but I'm unfamiliar with connection issues to SD.

Any help is appreciated.

Jim
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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby HendrikS » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:02 pm

Would that be interesting for you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYeSvITXO1k

My very own little project. Up to now it's german only but if there is a demand I can translate it of course.

Image

There are different widget (13 of them) which can be changed by size, type, color and which sensor to display. Everything can be setup on the touchscreen. With min/max thresholds, 4 additional analog inputs, shiftlight option. YOu can configure 10 screens to your needs.

here are some more picture
http://www.trichecked.de/entwicklung-28-display/

and the online configurator (still alpha and some work to do, but you get the idea:
http://www.trichecked.de/online-konfigurator/
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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby benckj » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:01 pm

Yes and No. Nice to have SD screen but need device to be multifunctional with at least music and USB or phone inputs. I think the part Im struggling with is confirmation that a Droid head unit will in fact host SD through BT or at least USB input by means of MS serial interface.

Jim
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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby benckj » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:49 pm

Finally got my $100 Chinese HU running Android 5.1.1 and resolution of 1080x600 installed and working. Took several hours and attempts to get SD installed from Wifi. It is working though and now need to play around with displays and do some road testing. Pics to follow.

HU does have many other useful features like phone link, several USB and Card ports, greast music and front camera DVR recording.

Jim
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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby benckj » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:08 pm

Attached a couple of pics showing SD display on my Chinese HU. So far I'm quite pleased even though I'm having some MS connection issues and have to work on a program so gauges automatically get displayed on start -up. Hopefully, the HU is robust enough to last in the car environment (hot, cold, vibration, dust, etc). May need to install an anti-glare screen protector as I keep getting reflections from the glass T-tops.

Apologies about the rotation of pics as it seems to auto correct when I'm attaching file.
Attachments
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MSPNP v2 with 3.57 firmware
FTDI USB interface on SD Android 5.1 head unit
Toyota MR2 98 3sgte
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A2W IC
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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby Speedy_G » Sat May 27, 2017 4:26 am

Whats the best way to tramsmit the datalogs to the laptop in a permanent installation?

The problem is, that i have to restart the tablet in order to make the new datalogs visible.
And with the OTG-Y cable i have one female plug for Megasquirt ( or additional USB device with hub) and the other cable is only working for charging, not for data transmission)
So i would have to unplug the cable at the tablet itself, which is not possible, without removing the whole dashboard installation.

Ive tried to install SD on a external USB stick, but its not working. Its always installed on the tablet itself.

But maybe its possible for a future release to select where the datalogs are saved?
So i could just select the external device, and when i want to transmitt the datalog i just use the usb stick.
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Re: Tips for permanent shadow dash installation?

Postby suberimakuri » Sat May 27, 2017 1:47 pm

Speedy. Tried getting a OTG y cable? Charge and data same time :)
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