SD failed to respond, display freeze

For discussion of other tuning and logging softwares

Moderators: jsmcortina, muythaibxr

Post Reply
kizzoalfa
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Szombathely, HUNGARY

SD failed to respond, display freeze

Post by kizzoalfa »

HI Phil,

This morning my SD started as usual but at the end of my trip it failed to response, the display did not change - no value update, no sig for NOT CONENCTED, just freezed at 2400rpm, looked like a snapshot.

In the attached log I hope you find some useful data for some root cause.

The session started at:

Shadow Dash MS 1.32 Started.
Start time: Thu Jun 25 07:08:50 GMT 2015

The issue started I think at:

25/06/2015 07:16:25 :Debug: Purged 38 orphaned bytes, as far as timing.

After restart ( I had to go to app manager to force stop SD) the application ran well.

Thanks,

Zoltan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 75 2.0, Supercharged by Eaton M45, MS3
kizzoalfa
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Szombathely, HUNGARY

Re: SD failed to respond, display freeze

Post by kizzoalfa »

Hi Phil,

It happened to me 3x this weekend. I think it is may some radiated noise, I need to figure out the source,

I will use shielded twisted pairs in my injector drive harness, that will be the first step I try.

Question would be why SD cannot restart after this? Why it stay in the running app area and need RAM clean in order to have a successful restart again.

Does it possible to implement something like a watchdog into the application? I mean something from the SW side what can unload the USB driver for example?

It also would be great to know (I know USB is not a way of preferred automotive communication method) what happening in this cases? Do you see something from the appdebug? I mean something like SD miss a frame, or what is causing the app to crash and became unresponsive?

Thanks,

Zoltan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 75 2.0, Supercharged by Eaton M45, MS3
kizzoalfa
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Szombathely, HUNGARY

Re: SD failed to respond, display freeze

Post by kizzoalfa »

Hi Phil,

I installed EMI shields around my injector and ignition harness. Also shielded by EMI shield my USB cable.

Now the comm. line is not having any radiated EMI influence, since 5 days I never had the display freeze issues.

However I still have some cases when SD does not go to sleep after discharge message, and sometimes start with a message: unable to find FTDIxx and fail to start. (May there should be some delay added after charge before connection initiated.)

May you remember I disconnect by some HW mods the USB line right after discharge not to have any USB device visible for the tablet.

What do you think when can you work on SD to have some issues fixed? I remember you mentioned about a month ago that TS need some more work than

you expected, what I understood but now it is looks like there is no step forward in case of SD, however there are many of identified issues what could be

fixed to have SD reliable and full functional. (What I really would have because since 2 months SD is my primary dash and it is not so nice that it sometimes not start and do not have data displayed.)

I appreciate your help,

Zoltan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 75 2.0, Supercharged by Eaton M45, MS3
LT401Vette
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 12697
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:07 am
Location: Moorseville, NC
Contact:

Re: SD failed to respond, display freeze

Post by LT401Vette »

I have done a good bit of bug fixing to SD lately and dashboard updates to support the new TS extensions for the next release.
Phil Tobin
EFI Analytics, helping to simplify EFI
Next Generation tuning software.
Supporting all MegaSquirt versions and firmwares.
http://www.TunerStudio.com
http://www.efiAnalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/
Support the firmware running your engine:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/donations.html
kizzoalfa
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Szombathely, HUNGARY

Re: SD failed to respond, display freeze

Post by kizzoalfa »

Great:)

edit, added:

Can you describe some of the issues you find / could fix. Just to see if they are in line with my findings.

Thanks,

Zoltan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 75 2.0, Supercharged by Eaton M45, MS3
kizzoalfa
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Szombathely, HUNGARY

Re: SD failed to respond, display freeze

Post by kizzoalfa »

Hi Phil,

however I EMI shielded all my IGN and INJ wires and also the USB wire from MS3 to the Tablet, I had today one display freeze what later I could reproduce. It happen when I go to overrun fuel cut and than go back from fuel cut to idle or to cruising. Looks like as I energize my injectors for the first time there is some radiated high spike noise what get the connection lost. I will check my injector driver and will reduce switching speed of my FET's to reduce EMI effect, may it help.

However I still cannot understand what happen in this case, why reconnection is not possible from SW side, why do I need to turn off MS3 - powercycle - and also SD need to be restarted after flushed from memory. Does it possible to use some timeout at receiver / transciever side to avoid this interruption?

This afternoon I changed to the BT adapter you sell, to see how it works, and to see if the noise is a radiated one somewhere or it is going over the tablet body (it is not yet shielded).

What I noticed is that it is OK now, I need some more testing.

I also noticed that the connection speed is about the same as in case of USB, so USB has no advantage from this point of view. I do not know if you experienced the same or not.

What I also noticed - I used the disconnect when not charging mode) but as I see it is not the same as in case with USB connection:

1. sometimes I receive a message, conn. trial but no response, so may the tablet just recognize that there is no response but not stop requests after charger disconnected.

2. The tab does not go to sleep in BT mode, however the toast messages about charge state are there.

Does it possible that the power moding based connection behavior control is not implemented the same was to BT mode?

Thanks,

Zoltan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 75 2.0, Supercharged by Eaton M45, MS3
LT401Vette
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 12697
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:07 am
Location: Moorseville, NC
Contact:

Re: SD failed to respond, display freeze

Post by LT401Vette »

However I still cannot understand what happen in this case, why reconnection is not possible from SW side, why do I need to turn off MS3 - powercycle - and also SD need to be restarted after flushed from memory. Does it possible to use some timeout at receiver / transciever side to avoid this interruption?
That depends. If the noise trips up the chipset itself, the it needs to be power cycled.
SD should be closing and reinitializing the connection if it gets an IOException talking to the port, if it is just a timeout, then it does not reinitialize as that causes it to take longer to reconnect when it shouldn't normally be needed.
Phil Tobin
EFI Analytics, helping to simplify EFI
Next Generation tuning software.
Supporting all MegaSquirt versions and firmwares.
http://www.TunerStudio.com
http://www.efiAnalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/
Support the firmware running your engine:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/donations.html
kizzoalfa
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Szombathely, HUNGARY

Re: SD failed to respond, display freeze

Post by kizzoalfa »

LT401Vette wrote:
However I still cannot understand what happen in this case, why reconnection is not possible from SW side, why do I need to turn off MS3 - powercycle - and also SD need to be restarted after flushed from memory. Does it possible to use some timeout at receiver / transciever side to avoid this interruption?
That depends. If the noise trips up the chipset itself, the it needs to be power cycled.
SD should be closing and reinitializing the connection if it gets an IOException talking to the port, if it is just a timeout, then it does not reinitialize as that causes it to take longer to reconnect when it shouldn't normally be needed.
Hi,

and what about that the tab does not go to sleep in case of BT mode? Could you verify my finding?
The hot restart with BT connection is very nice, it just need to try connect when really there is a target present (MS3 with BT) and sleep after discharge - what currently does not.

Today I had only one issue during my 20 restarts of the dash: once the BT could not connect and in the menu cancel connection appeared but SD was unresponsive for this command when I touched, I had to power cycle MS3...

Zoltan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 75 2.0, Supercharged by Eaton M45, MS3
LT401Vette
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 12697
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:07 am
Location: Moorseville, NC
Contact:

Re: SD failed to respond, display freeze

Post by LT401Vette »

I think what I really need to do is pull all that power on off stuff out and perhaps make a dedicated dash edition that can be set up to properly support this usage pattern. It is a very small number of people doing this, but creates a number conflicting scenarios and support issues. An edition that is setup to use as a dedicated dash would help separate the functions not making normal preferences so over loaded with specialty options.
Phil Tobin
EFI Analytics, helping to simplify EFI
Next Generation tuning software.
Supporting all MegaSquirt versions and firmwares.
http://www.TunerStudio.com
http://www.efiAnalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/
Support the firmware running your engine:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/donations.html
kizzoalfa
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Szombathely, HUNGARY

Re: SD failed to respond, display freeze

Post by kizzoalfa »

LT401Vette wrote:I think what I really need to do is pull all that power on off stuff out and perhaps make a dedicated dash edition that can be set up to properly support this usage pattern. It is a very small number of people doing this, but creates a number conflicting scenarios and support issues. An edition that is setup to use as a dedicated dash would help separate the functions not making normal preferences so over loaded with specialty options.
Hi, why should you eliminate and release a dedicated one? It can be done by menu / preferences, like now. The power on off stuff can be chosen now as well - thanks to you. Selection by user possible.

If it is working properly I am sure many people want to use it, there is no other one like this for MS3.

In my opinion the promised features need to be added, and behavior close to a factory dash need to be achieved (if it was created to be a dash). Sorry if it is sounds high level, but this is the case from my point of view, if it is a dash, and permanent installs targeted and to be supported.

It is a very small number of people doing this, but creates a number conflicting scenarios and support issues.

Sorry, if I am the only one who has always problems, but I do not think I am the only one using this SW and has the direction that this is an amazing dash solution once I have MS3 to drive it.

I also try to get back feedback to you, my intention is to have a better solution, and of course have my problem fixed. This not works without scenarios, but we are talking here I think a very important scenarios like reliable connection, close to factory dash feeling - not in graphics, because it absolutely achieved already, sleep.

I am looking forward for a promised new release, happy to test, just need some support.

Zoltan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 75 2.0, Supercharged by Eaton M45, MS3
kizzoalfa
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Szombathely, HUNGARY

Re: SD failed to respond, display freeze

Post by kizzoalfa »

Hi Phil,

I am running now with BT connection only, since a week. So no external HW, no USB, tablet is charged only via harness.

Once SD is able to connect to MS3, I have beautiful communication, no interrupt in functionality by EMI. So I suggest to everybody to connect via Bluetooth to avoid EMI.

Only issues I can report is that SD does not fall into sleep in case it is in BT mode and in 50 percent of the cases it find the BT device but conenction is not possible even in case of non running engines, (so EMI is not a player here).

I attach a debug file where I found that after discharge SD try to connect to BT in my reading. Can this be the root of the sleep issue and can it be related as well to the fact that sometimes SD fail to connect but keep in connecting mode (in menu cancel connection is visible)? I mean may after power off it keeps trying and not successful, but next time when MS3 is detectable due SD is already "tired" connection not realizing?

Thanks,

Zoltan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 75 2.0, Supercharged by Eaton M45, MS3
kizzoalfa
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Szombathely, HUNGARY

Re: SD failed to respond, display freeze

Post by kizzoalfa »

Hi Phil,

some update from Todays trial:

I put back SD 1.27 to see if there is any change in BT behavior.

The things I found:

- unable to keep SD alive unless I set prevent sleep mode (I think it is normal, screen goes OFF)
- for the first start after install SD connected to MS3 via BT and there was no issue
- after the first ignition cycle SD stayed in the status cancel connection but never connected

- I had to restart SD to have successful connection again

- to have SD on screen I set prevent sleep mode. What I found in this case however I had to turn off the tab manually after not connected state SD started and connected to MS3 successfully from 4/4 trials ( I need to have more trials tomorrow to say 100%)

- I updated to SD 1.32 and changed nothing in preferences, behaves as 1.27, 3/3 good connection but no sleep control via charge, so far so good:)

I do not know if you can reproduce this.

Zoltan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 75 2.0, Supercharged by Eaton M45, MS3
kizzoalfa
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Szombathely, HUNGARY

Re: SD failed to respond, display freeze

Post by kizzoalfa »

kizzoalfa wrote:Hi Phil,

some update from Todays trial:

I put back SD 1.27 to see if there is any change in BT behavior.

The things I found:

- unable to keep SD alive unless I set prevent sleep mode (I think it is normal, screen goes OFF)
- for the first start after install SD connected to MS3 via BT and there was no issue
- after the first ignition cycle SD stayed in the status cancel connection but never connected

- I had to restart SD to have successful connection again

- to have SD on screen I set prevent sleep mode. What I found in this case however I had to turn off the tab manually after not connected state SD started and connected to MS3 successfully from 4/4 trials ( I need to have more trials tomorrow to say 100%)

- I updated to SD 1.32 and changed nothing in preferences, behaves as 1.27, 3/3 good connection but no sleep control via charge, so far so good:)

I do not know if you can reproduce this.

Zoltan
Hi,

it looks like I was lucky only again during the first trials. Today from 15 to 8 times I had no connection to my dash from MS3 (same settings: no power moding, just autoconnect at startup and prevent sleep mode). I can see that SD is periodically try to connect to SD (no engine run, so no EMI) baed on SD indicator, sometimes it says that connected to BT adapter but no connection.

Bad thing in this mode is that without power moding and sleep, due to forced attempts for connection from SD the tab battery can be drained easily in 2 days.

Zoltan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 75 2.0, Supercharged by Eaton M45, MS3
Post Reply