Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby billr » Sat May 05, 2012 9:11 am

As I recall. you have an MS3X, right? How about connecting to the drivers there using resistors, they are pretty cheap and that would help eliminate the main board drivers as being the problem. What is the fuel pressure at 100KPa MAP?
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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby jsmcortina » Sat May 05, 2012 9:17 am

Use the test mode to verify the injectors operate.

Consider sending the Megasquirt off to have it checked out

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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby black 89turbo » Sat May 05, 2012 9:54 am

billr wrote:As I recall. you have an MS3X, right? How about connecting to the drivers there using resistors, they are pretty cheap and that would help eliminate the main board drivers as being the problem. What is the fuel pressure at 100KPa MAP?


Yes MS3x, Thats a Idea. I have a MS3x plug but have not looked into how it gets pinned. Have to figure out witch resistors and go grab some. fuel pressure is roughly 45psi i believe. Have to double check but im sure. You can clearly hear the pump running when the cars cranking or running.
Last edited by black 89turbo on Sat May 05, 2012 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby black 89turbo » Sat May 05, 2012 10:00 am

jsmcortina wrote:Use the test mode to verify the injectors operate.

Consider sending the Megasquirt off to have it checked out

James


As of 3 weeks ago they worked perfect on test mode. I will verify today that is the case.

Mostly likely its going to have to get sent out witch really sucks.
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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby Peter Florance » Sat May 05, 2012 10:03 am

black 89turbo wrote:
jsmcortina wrote:Use the test mode to verify the injectors operate.

Consider sending the Megasquirt off to have it checked out

James


As of 3 weeks ago they worked perfect on test mode. I will verify today that is the case.

Mostly likely its going to have to get sent out witch really sucks.

I do that sort of work.
I have some low z injectors to test with too
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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby jsmcortina » Sat May 05, 2012 10:14 am

For injector resistor info see: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/fuel.html#injresist
For MS3X plug injector wiring see: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/fuel.html#wiring

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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby black 89turbo » Sat May 05, 2012 2:09 pm

Peter Florance wrote:I do that sort of work.
I have some low z injectors to test with too


I know you take ecu jobs. I really don't want to send it out and waste more money on something that i never seen work in the first place. I just think money is getting throwed away that shouldnt be. I may try to get some high impedance injectors and try them. If that dont work then ill probably trash can the MS and have to help him save for something else.
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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby black 89turbo » Sat May 05, 2012 2:10 pm

jsmcortina wrote:For injector resistor info see: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/fuel.html#injresist
For MS3X plug injector wiring see: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/fuel.html#wiring

James


Thanks, james. Ive ran a few rx7's with the resistors and i think im going to try and pick up some high impedance injectors.
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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby Peter Florance » Sat May 05, 2012 2:36 pm

black 89turbo wrote:
Peter Florance wrote:I do that sort of work.
I have some low z injectors to test with too


I know you take ecu jobs. I really don't want to send it out and waste more money on something that i never seen work in the first place. I just think money is getting throwed away that shouldnt be. I may try to get some high impedance injectors and try them. If that dont work then ill probably trash can the MS and have to help him save for something else.

ok
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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby black 89turbo » Sat May 05, 2012 3:50 pm

Peter Florance wrote:ok
Unsubscribing... pm me if you need me.


I get this message when i try to run anything in test mode. ughh. Wth does "full data dump of local controller and page 2" mean?
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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby Peter Florance » Sat May 05, 2012 5:30 pm

black 89turbo wrote:
Peter Florance wrote:ok
Unsubscribing... pm me if you need me.


I get this message when i try to run anything in test mode. ughh. Wth does "full data dump of local controller and page 2" mean?

It sounds like some sort of communications problem. Are you using USB to serial adapter? Which chipset?
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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby Peter Florance » Sat May 05, 2012 5:51 pm

You can put the high Z on the main board channels and just set time threshold to 24.4

If that doesn't fix it, I'm guessing the main board is ok

But you should get someone to scope it
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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby black 89turbo » Sat May 05, 2012 7:43 pm

Peter Florance wrote:
black 89turbo wrote:
Peter Florance wrote:ok
Unsubscribing... pm me if you need me.


I get this message when i try to run anything in test mode. ughh. Wth does "full data dump of local controller and page 2" mean?

It sounds like some sort of communications problem. Are you using USB to serial adapter? Which chipset?


Its the only message ive ever had like that in TS. I dont get any message like that on anything else. Yes im using usb to serial. I forget what cable i have, its a nice one though. ill have to look when i gt home.
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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby black 89turbo » Sat May 05, 2012 7:51 pm

Peter Florance wrote:You can put the high Z on the main board channels and just set time threshold to 24.4

If that doesn't fix it, I'm guessing the main board is ok

But you should get someone to scope it


True, i was also thinking about putting a resistor box on the low z injectors now, keeping them on the main board and seeing what happens. I just need to confirm that ill not hurt the board. I think that may determine if theres a board problem as well?
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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby billr » Sat May 05, 2012 8:58 pm

I'm thinking that if the mainboard drivers are hosed, then they may be no better at turning on-off to drive the resistor/low-Z combo than they are at PWM; we may learn nothing. Using the MS3X drivers (and resistors) will bring in a whole new set of driver devices. It is extremely unlikely that the mainboard drivers and the MS3X drivers are all bad; especially if the MS3X ones haven't been used yet.
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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby black 89turbo » Sat May 05, 2012 9:50 pm

billr wrote:I'm thinking that if the mainboard drivers are hosed, then they may be no better at turning on-off to drive the resistor/low-Z combo than they are at PWM; we may learn nothing. Using the MS3X drivers (and resistors) will bring in a whole new set of driver devices. It is extremely unlikely that the mainboard drivers and the MS3X drivers are all bad; especially if the MS3X ones haven't been used yet.


How do you test the main board to see if the mainboard driver is fubar for sure? Anyway to open the box and test? wondering how the mainboard drivers would be bad. Its brand new ecu.
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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby Peter Florance » Sun May 06, 2012 12:49 am

billr wrote:I'm thinking that if the mainboard drivers are hosed, then they may be no better at turning on-off to drive the resistor/low-Z combo than they are at PWM; we may learn nothing. Using the MS3X drivers (and resistors) will bring in a whole new set of driver devices. It is extremely unlikely that the mainboard drivers and the MS3X drivers are all bad; especially if the MS3X ones haven't been used yet.

I don't think in this case it is turn-off. I think the recirculating part is not working so he has spikes at every PW pulse; making PW% way less effective.
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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby black 89turbo » Sun May 06, 2012 9:00 am

Peter Florance wrote:
billr wrote:I'm thinking that if the mainboard drivers are hosed, then they may be no better at turning on-off to drive the resistor/low-Z combo than they are at PWM; we may learn nothing. Using the MS3X drivers (and resistors) will bring in a whole new set of driver devices. It is extremely unlikely that the mainboard drivers and the MS3X drivers are all bad; especially if the MS3X ones haven't been used yet.

I don't think in this case it is turn-off. I think the recirculating part is not working so he has spikes at every PW pulse; making PW% way less effective.


That seems like it may be the case. I only have a few options:

Somehow, confirm for sure the pwm circuit is faulty and fix it.
Try high Z injectors
Try Ms3x board
Send it out.

This is what i dont understand. If the circuit is bad and it got fixed wouldnt it go bad again? It would be a propetual cycle forever since the wiring ect has been the same since day 1...theoretically
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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby billr » Sun May 06, 2012 9:25 am

I have to be blunt... if the MS is bad and gets repaired it will not go bad right away if your install is correct. Many thousands of MS users will attest to that. Although it is possible your MS was bad as-delivered new, my perception is that most problems are caused by a faulty install; and they don't always cause fatal damage to the MS, so maybe you will get lucky even if it is the install causing the problem. If I am annoying you (or anyone else), then please advise and I will become a silent observer of this thread. I don't want to add to anyone's frustration, but have some ideas of how you might get back on track.
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Re: Ign signal, tps, nightmare. Base map would be great!

Postby black 89turbo » Sun May 06, 2012 10:08 am

billr wrote:I have to be blunt... if the MS is bad and gets repaired it will not go bad right away if your install is correct. Many thousands of MS users will attest to that. Although it is possible your MS was bad as-delivered new, my perception is that most problems are caused by a faulty install; and they don't always cause fatal damage to the MS, so maybe you will get lucky even if it is the install causing the problem. If I am annoying you (or anyone else), then please advise and I will become a silent observer of this thread. I don't want to add to anyone's frustration, but have some ideas of how you might get back on track.


You can be as blunt as you want. This isnt the first car i ever wired nor the last. This is the first computer ive ever had mind boggling situations with. My car has an electromotive tec3r that i personally installed. I know the in's & out's of that like the back of my hand. There are as we speak 11 standalone cars running that i personally wired myself. 4 were from scratch. 2 holding very very reputable numbers and are cars that "everyone knows". This MS has never seen the road, No other automobile, was bought brand new from DIYAutotune. Since the very FIRST day the MS was installed and the car was turned "on" i have not gained any ground with it. It still suffers from the EXACT same problems since the first time the key was turned "on". Ive tore the wiring harness down multiple times, swapped injectors, swapped distributors, swppped distributor wheels, got new alternatorS. new plug wires, plugs, pretty much everything trying to see a little change in something. Wiring the injectors is the easy part of the whole system exp. with a MS3 due to the resistor fact. The WIRES are labeled and i hope i know were #1 cyl is. Think about this for a second. You verify the car gets spark, verify the injectors are pulsing, by either listening to the injectors when cranking, pulling the distributor out and spinning it by hand, or using the "test mode" function in the MS. Make sure the fuel pump works by the ecu. This is all before you want to "start" the car. Now your set to start it and the car dosnt fire. Probably think it needs more fuel possibly, timing situation or some other settings need alterd. SO you spend months changing settings, using different maps that you get from people with running vehicles. Nothing changes. Time to test/ change parts. Change d*** near every part and still nothing changes. Go back to the drawing board. I never would have thought to put any number for the deadtime in the MS over 4. Why? because theres low Z injectors. Getting down to tons of confusion as to why nothing is happening, im going to dump tons of fuel, and why not up the deadtime to 5. As soon as i plugged 5 in it hit, plugged 7 in and fired right up. Thats were i stand.

The injectors are wired
135, 246

Now, if there is a way i can test the board with a meter beacuse i cant get my hands on a scope and someone knows what the readings are im supposed to get to verify the pwm circuit is faulty, that would be nice. I really dont want to send the ecu out because i can do whatever here as anyone can do where ever its sent to soldering socketing wise. I just have to figure out what would be bad. This is not my car, its my brothers. Im trying to help him out with it.
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