Why does a lot tuners hate MS

[jasaircraft]

is the ms3 gold and its "upgraded position triggering" variants available in the diyautotune.com site?

[jsmcortina]

is the ms3 gold and its "upgraded position triggering" variants available in the diyautotune.com site?

No.
MS3-Gold is only available from EFIsource.
MS3-Pro is only available from DIYautotune.

They both use the MAX9926 circuit from the Microsquirt.

James

[kjones6039]

Now the best thing about MS is open source.

Not!

But I do agree with your other comments!

Ken

[jasaircraft]

is the ms3 gold and its "upgraded position triggering" variants available in the diyautotune.com site?

No.
MS3-Gold is only available from EFIsource.
MS3-Pro is only available from DIYautotune.

They both use the MAX9926 circuit from the Microsquirt.

James

thanks!
will a future ms3 or ms4 have this max9926 or better?

[Bev]

Hello,

But focus on the topic : why tuner hate MS. In France tuners starts with a brand (Skynam) a long time ago. They don't want to learn a new ECU. I have convert some and continue to do this but there is severals points that are always told :
- ECU case and connector is not 'automotive' => I now sell them µMS

Manu

I love this one... funnily enough, we use Amphenol (AMP) DB connectors in aviation. I've used the crimp and pin insertion and removal tools at work to change pins and wires in my harness. If they're good enough for aircraft, they're good enough for my car.

Bevan

[mr_minnis]

I think a lot of tuners don't like the MS systems because there are potential multiple failure points at the install level.

1) Is the unit built correctly with the correct hardware options for the planned usage?
2) Is Tuner Studio configured correctly?
3) How well is the unit wired in?

Granted, any good tuning shop can overcome these potential issues with surcharges if they find problems with the above. There are also other ways to overcome this.

With most other systems you get a prebuilt ecu and all they have to do is worry about the wiring and the management application. I am also guessing that the firmware and management applications are not updated nearly as often. Maybe they don't want to keep up.

I know the dyno in town won't touch a MS system (last time I checked about 1 year ago); they do BigStuff3, EFi live and FAST. Maybe the other vendors won't let them do the MS systems.

[Manu]

Hello,

I want to ad a new sound here that I heard yesterday :

Some tuners in France won't tune MS because, even if they consider MS as a good product, they says (with truth) that because it's cheap, the cars that people bring to them are made with cheap parts too (i.e. : ebay chinese turbo....). So to avoid problems, they refuse to tune cars with ms

In France this situation is often driven by sellers who sold counterfeit boards for cheap... This deserve the whole MS world

[jasaircraft]

If you buy the assembled units or the pro unit then you wont have any of the issues asociated with incorrect circuit builds etc.
So that makes these ecus be at the same level of the other manufacturers.

I buy the unassembled units because of the cost, and the only thing I have had trouble is with triggerings, as always, but once I solve it the ecus work great.
I like the fact that you can test all outputs for instance.

[Rick Finsta]

Just an idea...

I was going through the Holley HP/Dominator software and manuals as I get questions from people using those systems and wanted to be familiar with the feature sets and nomenclature. There was mention of a "worksheet" to determine which circuits or harness(es) you would need for your desired application.

Like a "configurator" for at least the HARDWARE side of things. It could be as simple as an Excel spreadsheet or a document with drop-down menus. If you have somebody write down what firmware they are using when doing their install, it might encourage a deeper understanding of changes over time. Similar to the sticker on the inside of an assembled unit that captures what was done for future reference - try to encourage everyone to do the same thing.

Matt/Jerry - this might be something DIY would benefit from as you could directly link products. Fill out the drop-boxes on a website and get a shopping cart full of parts.

Also, when I approached dyno operators locally, I made it clear that I would be driving a running, base-map-tuned car onto their dyno, and paying by the hour for steady state fine-tuning of the fuel, tuning of the spark map, and then transient fueling before a few WOT pulls at the end. I will punch the keys and if they have ideas on which way to go, I'm their technical resource for how the software does it. I didn't get a single bad thing said about which system I was using, and in fact it seemed like an afterthought at one place. I think a key in this thread has been expectations and reality being in conflict, and often due to miscommunication. That is really part of the human condition, which the MS development team can't possibly be expected to fix!

[Matt Cramer]

Matt/Jerry - this might be something DIY would benefit from as you could directly link products. Fill out the drop-boxes on a website and get a shopping cart full of parts.

We've talked about it, but the back end for that kind of website would be incredibly complex. Something to check when we get the long-planned shopping cart update, but I can't promise we'll be able to find something sophisticated enough to cover all the ways you can build a MegaSquirt - or even half of them.

[24c]

... How do other ECUs do in this area?

Sorry a bit late to this thread, but this is from another ECU, that I think comes from the right point aka looking at triggering reliability. It has a "scope" function, only records a small amount of time, but what you see is a missing tooth whee, 12-1 (in red), the incrementing steps of the tooth edges (like a flight of stairs), the triangular ramp, which should be a straight line with no deviations and a sudden vertical drop (the software is analysing the expected trigger points and if the tooth info was inaccurately entered it would not be a straight line). Th etwo white columns per revolution of the trigger wheel are the tach or ignition events.

It actually works quite well, but it is just shown as an example of what others do.

trigger_wheel_ignition_events_scope.jpg

Mike

[jsmcortina]

The firmware can already record that kind of data as the "Engine Logger", but you need a registered version of TunerStudio to use it. The data can only be viewed offline in Megalogviewer.

James

[24c]

James

So is "Engine Logger" different to "Ignition Logger" in Tunerstudio, if so I didn't know that existed!

Mike

[jsmcortina]

James

So is "Engine Logger" different to "Ignition Logger" in Tunerstudio, if so I didn't know that existed!

Mike

"Engine logger" is one of the ignition loggers.

James