2002 Toyota 2rzfe Won't start

[hamish_18]

Hi Everybody,

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum... But a buddy of mine had me build him a diypnp ecu for his 2002 tacoma. he wanted to run sequential fuel and spark with this as well. So he purchased the additional injector circuit and I made sure and set the board up for both fuel and spark to be sequential.

At first we had an issue with the cam sensor circuit, but after setting it up to use the LM1815, I was able to get a signal. I wired up my jimstim so that I could test everything, and I confirmed, that each coil would spark and each injector would pulse when in the testmode. I also confirmed that I saw both the crank and cam signals in the tooth logger. When my buddy received the ecu, he plugged it in to his truck, and I helped him confirm his idle valve, COP's, and injectors were in fact firing correctly.. All went well.

For the life of me I cant get the rig to start up and run. I have adjusted the fuel map and crank, pulse, etc. to try and get it to start up. I have a 99 tacoma, and though I use wastespark, and I don't use the cam sensor, my ms3 runs great. The crank wheel, and sensor are/should be the same as well. We haven't gotten it to run to confirm timing, but every 2rz I have build an ecu for, 3 ms3, and 2 diypnp, the crank wheel has had a trigger angle of 95 and it has been a 36-2 wheel.

When he goes to start the engine, it will burp, and feel like it wants to run, but doesn't quite get there, and also some times it almost seems like it get's push back? He took it to a tuner that is local to him, and has previous experience with Megasquirt, and they worked on it for 3.5 hours before giving up.

Any help from this wonderful group would be greatly appreciated. I am at a loss on this one.
attached are his current tune, logs, including trigger csv.

Thanks!!

Chris H.

[hamish_18]

A couple of things, that maybe the tuner adjusted trying to get the rig to start, but the pwm idle valve seems like it drops off quick. I may have him raise that up higher for a longer period. Maybe the valve isn't open enough at the temp he is at. it should be pretty open, but still. and also do you guys think I should have him kill off all ASE? WUE is also higher than mine. Overall the PW seems a little high for him. he has 660cc injectors, and at crank the PW is 13ms? I have 550's, and my crank pw is only around 10. Shouldn't his be even less?

I am seeing some strange dips in MAPdot just after the highest rpm? Any ideas on why that is happening? I have another log where the mapdot is -1241%, its a log a few minutes before the one I attached. In fact I'll attach that one here as well.

I checked his trigger angle?!?! I will have to ask why they thought it needed to be at 125. I can tell you that we were unable to get it started when I KNOW it was at 95. I will definitely make sure he changes that back.
That's all I could see so far.

*EDIT, also noticed his injector dead time at .6, asking if he got that number from somewhere. I don't remember changing that at all. If he didn't get explicit instructions to set it that low for his injectors I am changing it back to 1.0..

*EDIT Again.. I guess the injectors are 720 bosch hiZ.
Thanks,
Chris

[Matt Cramer]

Try disconnecting the injectors, put a timing light on it, and get that tooth #1 angle set before anything else.

[hamish_18]

Unless Toyota made a drastic change to this engine, the trigger angle is 95. I am having him change that first and foremost. Like my timing light, unless the starter can spin the engine to past 500rpms his timing light won't work.

[billr]

Are you saying the lights don't flash while cranking, or just that you can't see any marks on the dampener/pulley/flywheel? If it does flash, then try in a very dark garage. If it won't flash at all, is it a "dial-back" type light? No timing-light flash while cranking means either a crappy spark or crappy light; either of which should be corrected.

[hamish_18]

Mine is a craftsman, and I even called them. It won't pick up a signal until over 500 rpm. It just doesn't flash. It sucked..

[hamish_18]

Okay remoted in to my buddy's laptop today and made some changes to the tune, and took some logs.
Still no luck. It seems like it wants to start, but I am just shoving fuel in at this point. If I pull fuel back it doesn't even do anything. As in it doesn't fire. With the current tune, it seems like it wants to run. Also something to note, sometimes it seems like the starter gets push back like it's firing before it should.

I have a lot longer log, but I was making a lot of changes to the tune. these logs have the same tune with them. Well the second one I think I added 50 more to the cranking pulse.

Here are the logs..

[billr]

Have you still not checked the base timing??? Get another light! By the way, that bit about "not working under 500 rpm" makes no sense. Each spark event is individual, lasting only a millisecond or two regardless of how often they occur.

[Chris D.]

I think I my craftsmen gun has a dial back/forward setup..
I'll have to check..

[DeadStiff]

A dumb light shouldn't care about minimum rpm, but if it's a dial back I could see them having a minimum usable rpm.

[Chris D.]

How would you check the timing if you are the only person?

[billr]

Okay, I can understand how that might be true with a dial-back. Fortunately I have had no experience with a dial-back, so didn't think about that.

[Chris D.]

Turns out my craftsman light is just a basic version I guess my older one that broke was the one that had adjustability.

I unplugged the relay and had my wife crank it, the light was faint, not consistant (rpm speed) and I coudn't make out the timing marks.

I'll ask some friends if they have an adjustable one.

[billr]

You will be better off using a simple light, you don't want an adjustable one. The light will be faint at cranking speeds, do you have the area very dark while trying this? Don't rely on seeing stock timing marks, at least at first, they may be too small to see. Put some temporary marks on, using tape around the dampener/pulley and a bright marking pen to put big wide marks. Great accuracy isn't critical for this "first start", you just want to be sure you are within about five crank degrees. Back to the light issue: work that out, getting it to flash consistently, using the "spark-test" in TS, don't devil the engine/battery/starter with cranking to test the light operation!

[hamish_18]

I know it is a great idea to confirm timing, but looking at a number of rigs, I just dont see how the trigger angle would be different on his rig. Hopefully it is wrong, and that was all that was needed to get this engine started, but I really feel like this isn't the issue, and we should be looking elsewhere. Hopefully now that I have said this, I'll be wrong and he is like 10 degrees out

*EDIT Rigs as in other toyota tacoma's with the 2rzfe..

-Chris

[billr]

Okay, *assuming* the base timing is correct, reduce the cranking advance to zero degrees. Any engine should fire and start that way, and it will eliminate any tendency to "push back the starter". Try disabling the fuel pump and injectors and get it to fire with a quick blast of starting-fluid. Let's confirm that it is *just* a fueling issue.

[Chris D.]

heres the logs from the last attempts from Saturday.. No dice..

I'm not sure if I uploaded this correctly, please let me know..

Thanks

[Chris D.]

current tune..

I don't know anything about this stuff, Hamish built it for me..

[billr]

So what did happen, no firing at all? Did you disable fuel, air-out the chambers and plugs, then try with starting fluid?

[Chris D.]

So what did happen, no firing at all? Did you disable fuel, air-out the chambers and plugs, then try with starting fluid?

yes, i got some starting fluid, pulled the injector harness's off and it reved up and died..
We did however get it to run on what sounded like 3 cyl out of 4 and I had to keep my foot into it a bit or it would die.
It wouldn't rev any higher than 900rpm I believe..
It ran lean at idle and he had it set to dump in quite a bit of fuel..

lean on the wideband..