Popping and poor warm start

[billr]

How many magnets in the wheel? Timing accuracy depends on the number of teeth/magnets/vanes/windows (whatever) on the wheel. The type of sensor and wheel (opto, VR, Hall with magnet, Hall with "flying magnet") is irrelevant if the components and install are correct. Note timing derived from the dizzy is only as accurate as the cam/dizzy drive. If there is slop in the cam drive or it's gearing to the dizzy, then there is possibility of spark-scatter; a long-known problem that is best solved by using a crank wheel.

[mustanglx_1989]

I could get all of the specs on the wheel. That will be a winter project. I'm getting pretty interested in the MS and it's ability to keep up with the BS3, Holley, etc. I have a few friends that are very interested in what I'm doing, so I hope I can get it all figured out.

Alright, new distributor worked fine. It is locked in at 10* and holding.

That is good news. It is also running much better, but still not 100%.

I have some popping on accel and the idle valve doesn't seem to be working at all. I have to keep the throttle cracked. I haven't driven it yet, but I feel much better about what is going on.

I have the log file. I am wondering if I should start a new thread with the new symptoms?

I'm giving myself a week to try and get it track ready, so any help at all would be great.

I am also hoping to have the wideband in it tomorrow. Would this help with cold tuning? It autotune worth it? I am reading as much as possible but the information is pretty scattered.

Thanks a lot.

James

Hot Start.msl

[billr]

By "autotune" do you mean the VEAL in TS? Yes, pay to register TS and MLV. I, too, resisted that, and doing so was about the only regret I have had during my MS journey. A WB will help, but keep in mind that placement of the sensor can affect AFR readings, so don't ignore how the engine is actually running and the spark plugs are coloring chasing AFRs with blind faith in the WB. A week to get a tune suitable for track-ready seems optimistic, unless that week is spent on a dyno. As far as " it's ability to keep up with the BS3, Holley, etc.", I expect MS will not only keep up, it will far surpass those others in what you can actually do with it. The abilities to access software/hardware developers, have most schematics to see, and even see the firmware code (If you are competent there) are simply unmatched. Plus you can buy a lot more of whatever you want with the money saved, even if that is only gas so you can enjoy your EFI system more!

[mustanglx_1989]

The first thing I did was purchase the package deal. I didn't even want to try to mess with it without having access to all of it's features.

So far I am impressed with the MS. I will say the software with the BS3 is a lot easier for beginners. You basically just answer questions about your setup and specs of your parts, and it works off of those. Of course you can dig deeper and change anything, but to just start out, I think it is simpler.

So what direction should I be looking next? It is still not idling, and popping on acceleration.

James

[Matt Cramer]

Can you also post a copy of the current tune? I can have a look at it, combined with the data log, and see if I can help pin down the idle and acceleration problems.

[mustanglx_1989]

Here is what I have so far...

Mustang_Base[1].msq

[Matt Cramer]

Exactly what sort of O2 sensor are you using?

[mustanglx_1989]

It has the stock narrow ones in it. I believe they are Bosch brand if that makes a difference.

I have an Innovative MTX-L to put in it.

Is the write up on the connections still on your site, Matt?

Thanks,
James

[Matt Cramer]

It should be...

I'd hook up the MTX-L; it will make tuning a LOT easier!

[mustanglx_1989]

I'm going to get on it tonight. Does the tune look ok?

James

[mustanglx_1989]

Ok. The wideband is in and hooked up.

It is all over the place. It is popping so hard, I thought it was going to fall off the lift. It is going super lean. I am suspecting something is off in the tune.

Could someone please have a look?

The wideband takes a few seconds to warm up, so the computer is on its own at first.

James

WB.msl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwE5Z-GuWWU

[Yves]

Not expert, but here goes what I think.

99% of all tuning problems are found in the ignition they used to say. Maybe a little more initial timing, like 18°. AFR's at idle, for what they are worth, are more stable with more ignition timing. But don't go overboard.Depends on your cam.

[Matt Cramer]

The first thing I noticed is that to get an adequate air/fuel ratio, you have the VE set very high. This tells me either something is pulling too much fuel or something is wrong with the tune.

For the pulling too much fuel angle, I noticed the MAT readings are sky high (around 144 degrees the whole time!) Try relocating the IAT sensor from the manifold to upstream of the throttle and see if that helps. You may also want to raise the MAT correction values over 100 degrees to closer to 100%.

[billr]

Check your firing order again. Your .msq shows 1-3-7-2-6-5-8-4; but the closest I could find for any Ford V-8 is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8. What you have set in the .msq doesn't really set the firing order, but if you are thinking of it wrong you may have it wired wrong as well.

[mustanglx_1989]

Alright, thanks for noticing that Billr. I will check it.

Matt, where do I adjust the MAT sensor? I cannot seem to find it.

I'm going to head out in a few and start messing with it.

James

[mustanglx_1989]

So I am trying it again and the TPS works for a few seconds, and then jumps to negative 17. It stays there and quits responding until I cycle the power. Then it goes back to being fine.

[Matt Cramer]

Alright, thanks for noticing that Billr. I will check it.

Matt, where do I adjust the MAT sensor? I cannot seem to find it.

I'm going to head out in a few and start messing with it.

James

It's under Basic / Load Settings -> MAT Air Density Table.

So I am trying it again and the TPS works for a few seconds, and then jumps to negative 17. It stays there and quits responding until I cycle the power. Then it goes back to being fine.

When that happens, see what ADC values you get at closed and wide open throttle under Tools -> Calibrate TPS. Let me know what you find.

[mustanglx_1989]

ADC values were going to zero. I found the problem, I went through the entire harness and found a pin backing out of the TPS connector. All seems well now.

It is still popping very loudly and won't stay running to save it's life. It won't run long enough to let the Wideband come out of heater mode for more than a few seconds. It is reading in the 22's when it does.

Billr, I have the old Ford firing order in the car. 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 is what is should be set to. I pulled the entire harness apart and re-soldered the connectors just to make sure.

Everything physically seems to be fine. Every sensor in the car is brand new.

James

[mustanglx_1989]

It takes a lot of throttle to even get to 700rpm. I have no idea whats going on.

WB.msl

James

[mustanglx_1989]

Ok, back for more info.

I finally decided to just start over and downloaded the MS2 stock Mustang tune.

The car fires right up and runs the best it has since I started this. It still won't idle and has a wicked hesitation. But it starts hot and cold and the popping is gone. I would feel fairly confident running it down the road at this point.

So now, where did I go wrong on the last setup? How did I get so bad? I must have had something wrong before. Way out of whack.

So now the goal is, get the idle figured out. I need this thing to have a solid idle on the starting line. I would like to get the 2 step setup as well, but that's not important. It has a stock ford pwm idle but no matter how I changed the settings, I couldn't figure it out.

I would also like to get the hesitation out of it. If anyone sees anything to change, please let me know. This is the best it has been since I switched over.

Thanks guys, this is the exciting part.

James

This is what I downloaded a few minutes ago and setup for my engine size

Stock Mustang.msq

What I had before

Mustang Base.msq

A quick log from the new tune:

Warm start.msl