Home Stretch ... ?

[streetrover]

I went in to TunerStudio and using "calibrate AFR Table" tool I set sensor to Innovate LC1.

Here's the tune:

rover try 005.msq

And here are two logs:

2014-07-27_16.49.17.msl

2014-07-27_16.34.40.msl

I think the AFR was better because the Innovate gauge never gave me an error signal (though it was pinned lean much of the time).

Bob

[ashford]

finally got a good(usable) o2 signal. will run throught ve anylize and give a better ve table

[ashford]

well i lied the o2 looked sane for a short while in the log, then went to hell.

make sure that the unit is grounded to the engine block.
i sorta guessed at the ve based on what the o2 was showing when it was working.

[streetrover]

THANKS ASHFORD !!!

Each tune you've uploaded has been better than the last! If I can get this AFR thing solid then I really might be in the "home stretch!"

[streetrover]

Here's the latest...

Uploaded Ashford's latest tune....took car for a drive. I captured a data log as I drove slowly toward pavement about .5 mile while car was warming up ( I live on a dirt road). The results, to my eye, seem generally promising. Notice that the AFR seems rather stable (until about 405 seconds into log). At 405 seconds things go weird. Interestingly, this is the point of the drive where I take my foot off the accelerator and coast downhill at a rather steep grade. Seems understandable that this could throw things off a bit. Quarter way down the hill the Innovate gauge pinned at 22.4 and by the bottom of the hill I got the E8 code again. Notice that the car was still cool and wasn't under a heavy load. I think this might rule out an overheating O2 sensor. As such, grom_e30's idea that it was just hit with extremely rich conditions rings true. As I'm writing this the car is cooling. I'm going to try again, this time holding down the clutch during the hill (perhaps I can get to the road without the dreaded e8 code!)

Here's the log:

2014-07-28_01.msl

Oh, one other thing... once I get the E8 code, the remainder of my testdrive is shot ... the gauge never goes back to reading anything other than E8 and I'm stuck at 7:1 or 8:1 AFR. Even when I stop, turn the car off, then restart, I never get anything other than the "htr" display from the Innovate gauge. I need to wait at least 15 mins to start fresh.

[grom_e30]

im wondering if there is a issue with the wide band then? my lc1 used to e8 then come back to life and continue to work without having to do anything it would error have a fit then start working 30-40 seconds later.

[streetrover]

Possibly, but my theory is that the sensor is so loaded with fuel it takes quite a while to evaporate. Or am I mad!

[grom_e30]

i would assume that its possible you can always test the theory like you said.

[streetrover]

Well, went out for another drive. Car ran great (smooth idle, good power). E8 the whole way though ....grrrr. I saw a new Innovate wideband sensor online for $60. Figure my test drive = 5 mins at 7:1 AFR = 2 gallons = $8. Might be cheaper to just buy another sensor. Hesitant to get another Innovate with all the problems I've had though! I'm gonna try one more thing...gonna try to "program" the sensor with the software from Innovate.

[grom_e30]

just because the wideband reports super rich when it has a moment does not mean thats the real afr the car is running, but will mean thats what the ecu thinks is happening and it will try and drag a load of fuel out because of that, and it will make tuning it using the wideband almost impossible. have you gone through and confirmed that all the wiring to the wideband is good, esp the 12v and ground.

[streetrover]

Well, I've got two displays. The first is the Innovate gauge. The second in the AFR gauge in Tunerstudio. When the Innovate gauge is reading between 9:1 to 21:1 so is the TunerStudio gauge. When the Innovate pins at 22.4 the TunerStudio gauge is pinned at around 22.1. When the Innovate gauge goes E8 or "htr" the TunerStudio gauge is 7:1 or 8:1. I've changed the "EGO controller authority" to 0 thinking that then the sensor won't ALTER fuel, just DISPLAY what ratio is.

Pretty sure red (12v) wire, yellow (signal) wire are solid. Im gonna run a big fat 12gauge ground wire from black/white wires to block.

[grom_e30]

you are correct in setting the "EGO controller authority" to zero will mean the ecu will not adjust the fuel according to the wide band.

[streetrover]

Then if that's the case, WHAT IS TELLING THE ECU TO DUMP FUEL IN?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


Here's my tune...

rover try 010.msq

[grom_e30]

from the msq you posted the ecu should only show the readings from the lambda sensor it should not make any adjustments to the fueling based on its reading to check this, if you have a paid version of tunerstudio you could right click on any gauge and change it to 'egocor1' and it should sit at 100% or in a data log you could look for 'Gego' 100% means no correction 110% means a 10% correction factor and 90% gego would mean a -10% correction.

[ashford]

Then if that's the case, WHAT IS TELLING THE ECU TO DUMP FUEL IN?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


Here's my tune...

rover try 010.msq

it is not dumpin in fuel( other that what it normally does), the wideband goes into stupid mode and lies to the ms, that rich afr you see in ts IS NOT REAL. the ms only logs what it sees(and what it sees is an errounous value) with 0 authority it does nothing other than what the ve table tells it, with higher authority it would be pulling fuel.

at this point ther is no point in tuning till either the wideband is fixed or a narrowband installed in its place.

btw the last innovative product i had was thrown into the garbage

[racingmini_mtl]

Instead of buying another sensor, you might want to try to buy another controller without a sensor. I know that Alan from 14point7.com has successfully used his own controllers with sensors that gave errors with the Innovate controllers.

Jean

[Hey_Allen]

Yep, the easiest would probably be a Spartan Lambda Controller, at $75.

I just sold my LC-1 on the Bay yesterday, never even installed it after seeing how many sensors they seem to have developed an appetite for! I can't afford to feed that habit.
I'm playing with a TinyIOx and a pair of SLC-OEM controllers, but can't tell you how it works just yet. Maybe next week.

[streetrover]

it is not dumpin in fuel( other that what it normally does), the wideband goes into stupid mode and lies to the ms, that rich afr you see in ts IS NOT REAL. the ms only logs what it sees(and what it sees is an errounous value) with 0 authority it does nothing other than what the ve table tells it, with higher authority it would be pulling fuel.

at this point ther is no point in tuning till either the wideband is fixed or a narrowband installed in its place.

btw the last innovative product i had was thrown into the garbage

Hi guys,

I'm not trying to be burdensome or quarrelsome, I'm just trying to understand what's going on with the electronics. And believe me....when you say the gauges are lying to me that doesn't freak me out. Hell, I'm a high school teacher and if I'm not lied to 20 times a day then I must be on vacation! LOL! But I have two pieces of additional evidence...one that supports the idea that fuel is being dumped in (I can practically watch my fuel gauge descend) and one that doesn't support the idea that fuel is being dumped (car runs like a champ!) So here is my next thought...if, as you say, the injectors are only doing what the VE table tells them to (because O2 sensor authority = 0) then can't I just adjust the VE Table? Does my VE table look normal to everyone?



Ok, next thought. Is an O2 "controller" absolutely necessary? (If this is a dumb question please forgive me.) I'm assuming that the Innovate "controller" is located in the gauge unit. Does every brand of O2 sensor use a "controller?

Lastly, can I get everybody to chime in on their preference in O2 sensors/controllers?

[grom_e30]

a controller is needed as the ms ecu cannot directly control a wide band lambda, your gauge is yours in your case, a simple answer lower ve number = less fuel


PW = REQ_FUEL * VE * MAP * E + accel + Injector_open_time

The "E" above is the multiplied result of all enrichments, like warm-up, after-start, barometer and air temperature correction, closed-loop, etc:

E = gamma_Enrich = (Warmup/100) * (O2_Closed Loop/100) * (AirCorr/100) * (BaroCorr/100)

thats how the ecu works out the fuel pw in ms, its not just 1 thing that makes a change to it though.

[streetrover]

Ok...so theoretically grom_e30 because the VE table is a factor in the PW calculations lowering every cell by say -- 10 -- would cause less fuel to squirt into the engine. And I could see the resultant change on my pulsewidth gauge. Even though I CAN do this, however, SHOULD I do this?

Oh and yet another thought ... I still have the stock O2 sensors from the Range Rover engine when I pulled it. I'm currently researching the specs on these to determine wideband or narrow band. If they're wideband I guess I'll need a controller. If they're narrow band can I just wire them straight into the ECU?