understanding tip in and tps/map dot

[nathanhardy]

so first off I have read in the manual but im still very misunderstood on this. first I need help setting my thresholds and then understanding why im seeing negative numbers on my tps dot in my datalogs is that normal or a sign something is wrong. last if I could get some guide on where to set my pw for accel.. thanks im so close to have it running great!!!!

the log is just cursing around town

[nathanhardy]

also I need to check to see if my custom wb setting will work correctly . they are 0.15 10.00 5.35 20.00.. I sat in the car tonight as far as I can tell I'm spot on from 11.1 to 17.1 its a turbo car.. I just don't want it to do anything weird,

[nathanhardy]

this is what I'm fighting.. the car bucks really hard and then goes away when I shift up.. I will admit it got much better tonight after a very long veal session

[Matt Cramer]

so first off I have read in the manual but im still very misunderstood on this. first I need help setting my thresholds

These are the rate of change of TPS and MAP sensor readings, in % throttle per second and kPa per second respectively. For example, a TPSdot rate of 200% corresponds to opening the throttle from fully closed to fully open in 1/2 a second. You want them set high enough that it doesn't falsely trigger at steady throttle, but low enough that it responds quickly to a real change.

and then understanding why im seeing negative numbers on my tps dot in my datalogs is that normal or a sign something is wrong.

Positive is when TPS or MAP goes up, negative is when it goes down.

last if I could get some guide on where to set my pw for accel.. thanks im so close to have it running great!!!!

the log is just cursing around town

First, you will need to make sure the VE table is correct. Then you'll need to adjust the PWM numbers so that it doesn't bog. Theoretically, a perfectly dialed in AE setup will have no AFR spikes either lean or rich when you floor it. A small rich spike is preferable to going lean. You don't want a HUGE spike either way, but the final arbiter is how smoothly it drives.

[elutionsdesign]

Turn your over run fuel cut off for now, its confusing the AE tuning.

[nathanhardy]

Okay thank you that clears it up a bit! From my logs where would you set my threshold? I'm pretty sure it's too high.

I thought fuel cut was calculated in tuning so it doesn't need to be off?

Any ideas why the bucking every so often getting back into it?

Thank you for your responses!

[elutionsdesign]

Any ideas why the bucking every so often getting back into it?

That's what I mean, turn off fuel cut for now, the transitions are confusing the issue (not the controller).

[nathanhardy]

it got much better when I turned it on... i'll try again!

[nathanhardy]

so my car hates having fuel cut off. I noticed that accel is not coming on at all so I bet that's causing the buck. so the next thing I noticed was tuning at night vs day how do you get the happy ground night it leans and day it richens. the ve table heat map is changing throughout so I know the table is close

[16vboost]

Try setting your MAP lag factor to 95. Same for RPM and TPS lag factors. Then try tuning your VE table under fairly steady-state conditions everywhere you can get to. Interpolate the values in between. Your car should run fine with Overrun fuel cut off. Yes VEAL takes over-run into account so it shouldn't matter, but I think you have to make the engine happy first.

Lastly, at low RPM your ignition timing goes up with increasing MAP. This should be the opposite. So if you're idling at 15 degrees BTDC, you should be at something like 10 degrees at idle RPM and 100 kPa (not 22).

Good luck

-Alex

[elutionsdesign]

Lastly, at low RPM your ignition timing goes up with increasing MAP. This should be the opposite. So if you're idling at 15 degrees BTDC, you should be at something like 10 degrees at idle RPM and 100 kPa (not 22).

That's called "vacuum advance" and it will accelerate like a dog without it. Back in the distributor days it was common for the OEM's to have 22-25 degrees vacuum advance on top of the base timing, so 10 BTDC base + 22 = 32. It's a transition area so you're never there long, typically you'd completely transition out of "vacuum advance" by 2500 rpm and just be into centrifugal advance.

y-axis of ignition table, vacuum advance/boost retard
x-axis of ignition table, centrifugal advance

[16vboost]

That's called "vacuum advance" and it will accelerate like a dog without it. Back in the distributor days it was common for the OEM's to have 22-25 degrees vacuum advance on top of the base timing, so 10 BTDC base + 22 = 32. It's a transition area so you're never there long, typically you'd completely transition out of "vacuum advance" by 2500 rpm and just be into centrifugal advance.

y-axis of ignition table, vacuum advance/boost retard
x-axis of ignition table, centrifugal advance

Agreed, but take another look at his ignition table. He's got vacuum retard going on at low RPM.

-Alex

[nathanhardy]

Lastly, at low RPM your ignition timing goes up with increasing MAP. This should be the opposite. So if you're idling at 15 degrees BTDC, you should be at something like 10 degrees at idle RPM and 100 kPa (not 22)

so i am confused a little. my car idles around 33 kpa... I probably need to change those values... I put 10 in there because there are a bunch of hills and deccel hits that often... do I not need to worry about having it that low since im mostly in fuel cut

[16vboost]

I'm talking about your ignition table. It's at 15.5 degrees BTDC at idle RPM/30kPa, and 18.5-20.5 at idle RPM/90kPa. Ignition timing should retard (get smaller) as you go up in kPa. I'd do about 10kPa at 90kPa and a linear interpolation to 15.5 at 40kPa. This should give you a bit more torque off idle.

-Alex

[nathanhardy]

so maybe I have those values set wrong then because it seem my motors rev past those setting more like this across the map / not this I or straight up.... so its never in that area or at least I never see it.... I always though the higher the number= more power to a certain point

[nathanhardy]

I'm not sure I have the best timing for idle either when I followed the tuning manual it said to tune it for the highest vac well that was like 22. paul at kp tuned said that's high and said it should be between 10-15 I think that what he said I lost the email.

[16vboost]

If you go for the highest vac at idle, you'll probably end up somewhere around 22. But It's commonly suggested that you back off a bit from that ideal so that idle advance has some extra timing to work with if the idle drops suddenly. When you first open the throttle at idle, the first thing that happens is the MAP goes up to nearly 100, then the RPM goes up. Even though it's only for an instant, you do work in this part of the table. I see that you have RPM and MAP averaging lag factors set to 50. This might be making your MAP and RPM signals too sluggish to see this. You might want to set those in the 90's or even 100 if noise allows.

-Alex

[nathanhardy]

I used a high grade shielded wiring when I did the install because of noise I've had in the past.. How much noise is to much noise?

[nathanhardy]

If I turn my lags off and did a catalog is that something that can be seen and calculated by megalogveiwer and the tuned if so could you help me?

[16vboost]

Sure, set lags to 100 and do a data log.