Mustang 5.0 w/ new MSPNP revs too high after start

[Davashcow]

Early in the MS learning period for me. Five liter twin-turbo fox motor with MSPNP and base tune with no major tuning changes except 9.4 req fuel for 42-lb injectors.

Start the car cold and it lights right off and holds 2500 rpm steady for 2-3 seconds, then settles down into a 400-500 rpm rich idle that needs light throttle to stay alive. Turn the car off and restart...same thing happens. Where to begin? I hate starting the car cold and having it rev that high.

[ashford]

most likely cranking duty and idle warmup pwm settings

[nathanhardy]

Wow that's pretty impressive for a starter msq! Like he said^^^

[Davashcow]

OK,

No msq or datalog yet, but it shouldn't matter for this particular question.

I adjusted the idle settings which fixed the initial high revving, warmed it all the way up, and idled it for a while on the base map. The car stalls out if revved and released, but if feathered down it will settle into a low 450-550 rpm smooth idle with a slightly rich wideband reading of around 13:1.

If I introduce a vacuum leak via the open purge line on the intake, it idles nicely at 1000 rpm and around 14:1.

What's next? Do I increase the warm-up idle rpm with the idle screw or the VE table? The base VE table has much higher idle values than !EVERY! msq I've found on ANY forum with a similar setup.

[ashford]

nobody can tell you "change this to that" unless we have a this, post your msq. it is faster for you and everybody else, i can whip up a "safe base tune" out of my a$$ with a datalog and msq that can be close. talking about it gets nowhere, people need something to work with.

[Davashcow]

Sure, here's the msq. Datalog to follow, soon as I can. It will be my first datalog attempt.

Was my idle screw question something that can be answered without msq/datalog analysis?

Tune deleted.

[ashford]

Sure, here's the msq. Datalog to follow, soon as I can. It will be my first datalog attempt.

Was my idle screw question something that can be answered without msq/datalog analysis?

datalog is simple, goto dataloging> start loging. when done with what you want to get either hit stop datalogging, open the file or close tuner studios. then go and find where you saved it then look at it or post it. if it is too big to post .zip it.

it is meaningless to adjust the idle screw untill it is known how much dutycycle/ timing/map etc the computer is seeing. general rule of thumb on ford iac is when engine is hot, all loads are off(fan lights etc) timing and fuel is where it should be iac duty should be around 20-30% pwm duty

[ashford]

took a look at the msq. the pwm idle warmup is really low. warm the car up and increase the last dot on the graph untill it idles about where you want. should be in the 30% range. then increase the rest the coldest one should be about 30%(in pwm numbers not multiply by 1.3) above the idle then blend the rest in so it looks almost like a straight line. if your idle % gets above 40-50% then a screw adjust is in order. cranking duty should be about the same as what is required to idle maybee a little less when warm, depending on the intake. cold is usually higher.

taking a look at the base maps from diyautotune the one you have is different from the rest, i would start of with settings( pwm idle and cranking) from the sn95

do you really have a narrowband o2? that is playing russian rolette with a turbo car.

[Davashcow]

Thanks for the tips. I do have a wideband installed, as mention a few posts up, but I'm just getting started with getting the car running, so I haven't set up EGO control. This only has any effect with VE live, right? Does the MS use the WB for anything else?

The car has not moved since I installed turbos, wideband, and MSPNP.

[kjones6039]

Does the MS use the WB for anything else?

Not too much..... Just a couple things, like mixture control during closed loop operation and minor things like that.

Sorry for coming across like a smart ass, but WB is used in many ways, which are well covered in the manuals.

Ken

[nathanhardy]

Does the MS use the WB for anything else?

Not too much..... Just a couple things, like mixture control during closed loop operation and minor things like that.

Sorry for coming across like a smart ass, but WB is used in many ways, which are well covered in the manuals.

Ken

Lol, I love you ken!!! U got me once too...

[nathanhardy]

I was the same way when I first started tuning my big $ turbo setup! Just watch your AFR and spark map in boost keep them safe till u can dyno. You should be fine just read up and be smart!

[Davashcow]

Does the MS use the WB for anything else?

Not too much..... Just a couple things, like mixture control during closed loop operation and minor things like that.

Sorry for coming across like a smart ass, but WB is used in many ways, which are well covered in the manuals.

Ken

Closed loop is currently disabled. What else does MSExtra look at the WB signal for?

[kjones6039]

Does the MS use the WB for anything else?

Not too much..... Just a couple things, like mixture control during closed loop operation and minor things like that.

Sorry for coming across like a smart ass, but WB is used in many ways, which are well covered in the manuals.

Ken

Closed loop is currently disabled. What else does MSExtra look at the WB signal for?

You are correct of course! I certainly overloaded my ass when I said "but WB is used in many ways"!
I think it would have been more correct for me to have said, "but WB is used in a couple of ways". I will say, without equivocation, that the WB signal is used for more than simply providing ego information for use in VEAL.
Beyond that I would again direct your attention to the several manuals.

Further, your affiant sayeth not!

Ken

[Davashcow]

You are correct of course! I certainly overloaded my ass when I said "but WB is used in many ways"!
I think it would have been more correct for me to have said, "but WB is used in a couple of ways". I will say, without equivocation, that the WB signal is used for more than simply providing ego information for use in VEAL.
Beyond that I would again direct your attention to the several manuals.

Further, your affiant sayeth not!

Ken

I'm running quite well now, thanks to.....well, not you. Might I direct any current or future reader's attention to the plain fact that the several aforementioned manuals are about as well organized as the dingleberries on a chimp's arse. Savvy?

[jsmcortina]

I'm running quite well now, thanks to.....well, not you. Might I direct any current or future reader's attention to the plain fact that the several aforementioned manuals are about as well organized as the dingleberries on a chimp's arse. Savvy?

That's very unhelpful. If you have constructive suggestions the please post them. Snide remarks are not welcome.

James

[Davashcow]

That's very unhelpful. If you have constructive suggestions the please post them. Snide remarks are not welcome.

James

You are correct and I stand admonished. Any snideness was not intended for you, but for those that play "I've got a secret" and post their own smartass(and slightly snide) remarks at self-admitted newbies who are just trying to get some help. Nothing is more frustrating than trying to get a crappy running/starting/accelerating engine to work and being told that I didn't read "good enough". Again, my apologies to you. MS, TS, and VEAL are unbelievable products and I brag about them daily.

[silverGT]

hey Davashcow- don't know if this related but i discovered that the idle warmup duty steps on my MSPNP installed on my KenneBell blown 5.0 work exactly opposite of what is indicated- i.e. the higher the idle pwm setting, the lower the actual idle rpm. I was going crazy trying to solve the racing (2500 rpm) idle on startup as the car warmed up until I discovered thru much searching of other sites that somebody else had discovered the same issue. I had to invert the table for pwm vs coolant temp to get it behave properly. Present settings range from pwm of 28 @-20 degrees F to 74 @ 211 degreesF. Don't know whether it is software related, or hardware related or ? I posed the question on here and never received any reply. Other than that my set up runs quite well so far and has been pretty easy to dial in for a total newb.

[jlt-turbo]

Hey silvergt, can you post your actual settings for pwm/coolant temp. for us? I'm having the exact same problem with my TT set up in my 87 gt. Thanks in advance for any assistance!

[94_cobra]

my mspnp2 does this also. starts up, revs to about 2500-3000 for several seconds before getting to normal idle