Newbie/Startup Help needed

[DonMaximo]

Setup: SBF 363" 36#, NA, MSD dizzy, MSD 6AL, TKO600 MegaSquirt PNP

Having a problem getting the engine to stay running without throttle. If I hold RPMs above 1K, I can keep motor running, but once I let go of throttle, she dies immediately.

Starting from the standard EEC4A8_302_331 msq file.

I've changed the REQ-Fuel to use 363 CID and 36 lbs/hr, calibrated TPS, disconnected MAF sensor, and physically installed ECU including vacuum for MAP.

For setting base timing, I did the following:
Under "Ignition options", I set :
1) 'Fixed Table' setting to Fixed timing
2) 'Timing for Fixed Advance' was set to 10
3) 'Trigger Angle' was at 0 (zero)

The wife kept the engine running around 1K RPMs and I measured an even 20 degrees.

So, I changed "Fixed Table" back to "Use table" -AND- I set Trigger angle to 10.

I then burned to ECU, keyed/power off for a few seconds and keyed-on.

Please confirm this steps are accurate so far.

I then started the datalogger and attempted to start the car. I had to feather throttle to start, but then she almost immediately dies. I did this 2-3 times. Log file is attached.


I've messed around with "Crank Pulse" and "After Start (ASE) Percentage" but with no change in behavior.

Any help would be appreciated.

[grom_e30]

we are really gunna need a regular data log of the start/run attempt, under the top banner of tuner studio the data logging tab then hit start logging it will ask you where to save ect, after recording in the same place then hit stop.

[DonMaximo]

Thank you for the schooling. I am now capturing log in the way you recommended and this data makes a lot more sense to me.

Here are 2 logs captured from an already warmed up engine.

The first and smaller log was a straight-up attempt to start motor with NO throttle feathering.
The 2nd file is a log of the engine running while I HOLD the throttle open to keep engine running.

One casual observation from earlier was that my TunerStudio (TS) "Coolant Temp" gauge was fixed at 180 degrees...even when my instrument cluster accurately reported the temperature rising from 90 --> 180. In short, the TS gauge never moves from 180.

[grom_e30]

your mat and clt senor are flatlined at 180, im guesing that why its dying a soon as the ase runs out no warm up enrichment being added as ecu thinks engine is warm and will also be pulling fuel out as it thinks the air going in to the engine is warm and less dense, probably just need to set the calibration for these sensors in tuner studio under tools 'calibrate thermistor tables' . what are you using for these sensors, im guessing its a ford engine from this:

Starting from the standard EEC4A8_302_331 msq file.

if thats the case id try the ford setting in common sensors and see if you get sane readings.

[DonMaximo]

Followed the advice and calibrated all devices listed under Tools. Burned, Locked, and cycled power to car.

Started engine twice and failed to run with the same behavior, CLT is pinned at 180.

I found an interesting thread on the issue:
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 94&t=26239

The difference between my situation and this post is that my unit is a PNP. I've never opened the box.

Tomorrow I plan to take voltage readings off the stock ECU CLT pinout. I'll also power it up and disconnect the CLT sensor and determine if the TS gauge reflects this change.

Many thanks again for your input.

-Darryl

[grom_e30]

yeah you need to have sane reading from these sensors or you will be chasing your tail

[DonMaximo]

Measured resistor --> 10.56K

The Bias Resistor setting is at the default setting of: 2490 (2.4K)

Tomorrow, I'll change from 2490 --> 10560 and we'll have another go at it.

It's BEER:30 here in Texas, so I'm calling it a day.

Cheers,

-D

[grom_e30]

the bias resistor is the internal pull up resistor inside the megasquirt ecu.

[kjones6039]

Measured resistor --> 10.56K

The Bias Resistor setting is at the default setting of: 2490 (2.4K)

Tomorrow, I'll change from 2490 --> 10560 and we'll have another go at it.

It's BEER:30 here in Texas, so I'm calling it a day.

Cheers,

-D

When I lived in Texas, it was always BEER:30!

I even spent a week in Fort Worth, one night!

Ken

[DonMaximo]

grom_e30,

I was referring to the TunerStudio (v2.6.04) Bias Resistor Ohms setting under "Tools" then "Calibrate Thermistor Tables"

Reminder, this is a PNP ECU specific to 5.0 Ford. AS such, it's my understanding that I should not have to open this box for basic operation.

[grom_e30]

have you got documents to say the internal resistor in the ecu a 10.56K?

[DonMaximo]

I apologize if I've created any confusion.

What I meant to say is that I used an ohm meter across the 2 post CLT sensor at the engine and it measured 10.56K ohms.

I had thought that I would enter that value into the BIAS RESISTOR setting within TunerStudio (TS) and see "if" it had any effect... I tried and it did not. The TS Coolant temp gauge is still pinned at 180.

Even when I disconnect the sensor plug it is still stuck at 180 and this has me concerned.

I had read that when others were in this unenviable position (CLT stuck), they would try reinstalling Firmware, a task I've never performed before. Now, I'm wondering if I should just wait for Matt to reply to the request for assistance I sent this past Friday. I really don't want to start making changes to this "Plug-n-Play" device without the vendors consent or consensus


Any thoughts ?

[DonMaximo]

Step 17, as it relates to those who Assemble their own devices.
My unit is PNP where I never opened the box

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/V3trouble.htm

[billr]

" I really don't want to start making changes to this "Plug-n-Play" device without the vendors consent or consensus"

^^^ good plan, give Matt a chance to help you.

[grom_e30]

You could unplug the sensor and use a volt meter across the 2 terminals on the plug you should get 5v there, 1 of the wires should be at 5v and the other should be a ground.

[DonMaximo]

I reinstalled the firmware and the CLT gauge is working now. Whew !

I still need to modify REQ_FUEL, recalibrates, etc. Will follow up tomorrow.

Thanks to all !

-D

[Davashcow]

I'm not much farther along than you, but referencing the first post in this thread:

Double check your timing. For me, the trigger angle adjustment did not directly correlate to the same number of degrees of fixed timing change. It wasn't "one for one".

I also noticed your ve table differs from the EEC4A8_302_331 base map ve table that you said you're using. Did you already tweak yours a little?

[DonMaximo]

As for timing, I followed instructions as I understood them. First off, I could not keep engine running, so I had the wife hold the throttle open just enough to keep engine running at ~1K RPM.

For the TS Fixed timing setup, I used 10 degrees. With the wife feather throttle to keep engine running, Timing at the crank was a steady 20. So I changed TS back to "Use Table" and on the left side of screen, I changed trigger angle to 10.

As for the fuel, I didn't do anything special that I'm aware of. I did change my REQ_FUEL setting based upon my engine being 363" and using 36# injectors. Under fuel settings, I used AFR and VE generators to build tables, respectively.
Values changed considerably from the stock setup.

If you're a newbie as well, feel free to ping me private message/Email , if you wish. Perhaps 2 men in the same leaky boat, can find solutions quicker.

Now that I've reinstalled firm ware, I have new datalogs and MSQ files to share. Motor starts now and runs a little longer, but still fails within a minute or so.

Engine dies moments after start. Any help and/or education regarding these log files and/or MSQ file would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

-D

[Davashcow]

I think you need to confirm your timing with a light, with fixed timing selected in TS. When I went through this a few weeks ago, the change in trigger angle didn't correlate EXACTLY with the desired change in fixed timing. I think I had to change the trigger angle six degrees to get three or four degrees of change on the balancer. I'm just saying to confirm it after you made the initial change to the trigger angle to make sure that you've nailed down your fixed timing. THEN change it to "use table".

Hey Matt Cramer, aren't there some limitations regarding trigger angle values on Ford engines?

BTW, your latest msq shows fixed timing.

[DonMaximo]

Yeah, I just caught that fixed timing several minutes ago and made the change.

I've been using MS LogViewer VE analysis tools to adjust tables... seems pretty interesting. The motor, without any load, feels and sounds good once it's outside of the throttle being closed. Once closed, she dies, so there is some education I still need or must find to correct. WUE ? ASE ?

If I can get engine to stay running at idle, I can safely get outside and begin a few simple drives for additional logging. My game plan is to get operational to a basic point, then I'll convert over to my wide-band for fine tuning.