New tune Again, shoukd i use MAF this time or MAP?

[Meguiars]

Hi, im aboute to Change from ms2extra to Ms3Pro in my Datsun L28ET Turbo, that means a new tune. So this time i would like to try something new. The last time i had it tuned with MAP, but since i have a Nissan Q45 MAF i would like to try this as an fuel alg. What experiences do yoy guys have regarding this? I can also see in Tunerstudio that Q45 MAF is under the tools menu. Is this specially made for the Q45 MAF with the correct parameters?

Do i get any special benefits by using MAF instead of MAP? I have read that someone thinks the car runs smoother and nicer with MAF.

By the way im going to tune with E85 at the same time, does anyone have a tune with E85 settings, ve1-3 table setup and pretty much complete done tune.

If you dont want to post it here, please send it at email: carsmart@gmail.com

Thanx alot

//Stian

[elaw]

For what it's worth...

I've gone back and forth a couple of times with my car and finally settled on MAP.

In some respects MAF results in a more drivable setup, and can be a heck of a lot easier to tune. But I ended up stuck on one large and one small issue. The large issue was that whenever I'd lift off the throttle, the turbo bypass valve would open and that would result in a momentary low MAF reading because of the air being recirculated into the turbo inlet. That would make the car go lean and sometimes stall, and I never could figure out a solution to the problem. The other thing is that due to turbulence my MAF reading is a bit unstable at high flows, resulting in AFR bouncing around a bit at max boost - the time when you least want your AFR bouncing around!

But both of those issues are due to specific characteristics of my setup... your experience may be different.

[Meguiars]

How is it to setup the fuel algorythm to MAF from 0-100KPA and MAP from 100 to 320KPA ? and use table switching / fuel switching. I also want to use flex sensor (E85) Im not sure how to set it up togheter with MAF. And all of the other fuel / blending setups. Should secondary fuel be enabled in genaral settings? Multiply or additive. and so on. Here is my MSQ that i have started on. The ECU is going to be a MS3PRO that have been ordered.

Please take a look at the fuel settings and give me a heads up or feel free to make any changes.

Thanx

[ashford]

How is it to setup the fuel algorythm to MAF from 0-100KPA and MAP from 100 to 320KPA ? and use table switching / fuel switching. I also want to use flex sensor (E85) Im not sure how to set it up togheter with MAF. And all of the other fuel / blending setups. Should secondary fuel be enabled in genaral settings? Multiply or additive. and so on. Here is my MSQ that i have started on. The ECU is going to be a MS3PRO that have been ordered.

Please take a look at the fuel settings and give me a heads up or feel free to make any changes.

Thanx

i actually did that for awhile, the problem being(or 2) is that with maf as primary algorithm(the only way it can be done blended) iat is ignored even when in sd, this may have been fixed, i would look into it.

the other problem is that wue is different between the 2

[Meguiars]

Do you mean that the WUE is diffrent between the E85 or between MAF and SD. I have a seperate WUE for E85 in the ms3 tune (tunerstudio) when activated in Flex settings. Another question is: Do the VE trim table in MAF Setting make the MAF to use fuel table and correcting after that or what is that function for. Maybe a stupid question but ill ask anyway.

Thanx

[Meguiars]

Thanx[/quote]

i actually did that for awhile, the problem being(or 2) is that with maf as primary algorithm(the only way it can be done blended) iat is ignored even when in sd, this may have been fixed, i would look into it.

the other problem is that wue is different between the 2[/quote]


Is this correct Matt C. Is IAT ignored during SD and MAF, or has this been fixed? Or should it be like that?

//Stian

[winstonusmc]

I use a MAF with my L28ET and love it. I wasnt having any issues with stalling during the summer, but now stalls in the winter. Of course I have had open air blow off valves do this in factory MAF vehicles too. You just need to tighten the adjustment screw to keep that from happening. I would think the Q45 MAF would be way too big for the L28, unless you have a lot of work done to it. I use the Z32 MAF and dont come anywhere near the max. You shouldnt need VE1 after the tune is good. I just used scatter plots on MLV. you can set it up to use VEAL and still give good data to adjust.

Use the method discussed here:

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 34&t=49504

[ashford]

i should perhaps rephrase that. wue is different between sd and maf, maf tends to use a bit less. when maf is your primary algorithm the ideal gas law is ignored, mat correction still works(mat adder?)

when using maf ve1 is used as a trim table if desired.

[Meguiars]

Well im aiming for 400-450hp, Holset HX35 is ordered, Intercooler, New Denso 465cc @ 3 bar (43.5psi) and 548cc @ 4 bar (58psi), 240SX throttle body.

Going E85 fueling also, i have the Flex sensor i know im gonna need some bigger injectors later on.

Wish list:
Forged Rods and pistons

I dont think the Q45 is to big, but i havent tryed it yet so time will show. And doesnt the MAF measure the amount of air thats been pulled into the motor? or is it the values in the MAF sensor that cant read low amount of air commingf thrue. Or how and why is it to big.

Im no expert, im just willing to learn.

By the way can i get a copy of your tune? Then i have some comparison of ign table, afr and so on.


Thanx

[turbo conversion]

The only difference between small and large throttle bodys I have seen on smaller cid engines.

To me a smaller TB is much easier to tune off idle and low rpm than the larger ones.

Large TB on easy throttle dump a lot of cfm as the small TB at same throttle position dumps less.

I have tuned 60mm and 80mm on an L28et and the 60mm was much easier to tune off idle and 750 rpm to 1700 rpm.

This is what I have experienced, just my opinion.

David

[Meguiars]

Doesnt anyone have a tune for MAF with blending table for E85 (Flex sensor) setup?

Is this Load parameters correct in general settings correct for me when i would like to use E85 as secondary fuel? And will the Load setting change when i hit over 100kpa so the turbo kicks in, will the rest of the algorithm will be in MAP reading from 100kpa and up to 320kpa?

What exactly does the diffrent Fuel VE and Ign 1-4 setting do? Is it VE 1 and 2 that uses MAF will controll the fueling up to 100kpa as i want and table 3-4 uses the dual fueling E85 from 100kpa and up?

Do you guys follw where im going?

Thanx
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[winstonusmc]

As per your request, putting it here for everyones pleasure.
Specs:
L28ET
"Buick" wasted spark coilpack
GTR 440cc injectors
Z32 300zx MAF
full boost control
VSS in and boost by gear

L28ET current.msq

[Meguiars]

[quote="winstonusmc"]As per your request, putting it here for everyones pleasure.
Specs:
L28ET
"Buick" wasted spark coilpack
GTR 440cc injectors
Z32 300zx MAF
full boost control
VSS in and boost by gear


How do you set up VSS by gear, do you need anything special for that. How does the MS know what gear it is in? Do yu know if its possible to get a switch that senses when the car is in Neutral. I would like that for safety since im going to mount a alarm with remote start, then it should be in neutral and emergency/hand brake activated, just so i dont try to start the car when it is in first gear.

Thanx for the tune, you got almost the same internals in the car as mine, so it should be pretty close settings in TS. When it comes to my fuel blendimg, im going to use E85 sometimes and have a flex sensor, is it then enough to make another Ignition table and second boost control table, then the maf wil take care of the rest?

Thanx

[winstonusmc]

The gear setup isnt too difficult. You just need the final gear, tire diameter, and gear ratios. I have that info in my tune for the 280zx non turbo transmission. I just logged the speed vs RPM on a scatter plot to confirm my ratios. I put together a quick Excel spreadsheet that allowed me to confirm RPMvsSpeed. I will post that up later. I am on my Raspberry Pi right now and dont have access to anything. anyway.... off to the Pi thread.

[winstonusmc]

gear ratio.xls

Just fill out wheel diameter, final drive, rpm, and speed. I logged them through tuner studio and looked at them on a scatter plot.

[Meguiars]

gear ratio.xls

Just fill out wheel diameter, final drive, rpm, and speed. I logged them through tuner studio and looked at them on a scatter plot.

How did you solve the CAS sensor, did you use stock distributor or did you implate another cam sensor.

I have a problem that i have sold my original distributor since i thought i was all good when i used 36-1 trigger wheel and wasted spark.

[winstonusmc]

Turbo distributer with a DIY 24-2 wheel.