Table switching general question

Tuning concepts, methods, tips etc.

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ollykiwi3
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Table switching general question

Post by ollykiwi3 »

Tried setting up table switching to help get more resolution for idle stabilisation.
Was using alphan and sd using tps as switch.
Having both tables open on screen question is--- should I be able to see the live dot move from one table to the other when it hits the switch point?
Couldn't see it so not sure if I set it up right or if that's not how it works.
Reverted back to normal setup so can't load msq.
Will try again once I know what to expect.
Cheers
AC COBRA ,302H.O, 33lb inj, 70mm throttle,TFI ign, AFR 165 heads, X303 cam, MS2Extra 3.3.3
elutionsdesign
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Re: Table switching general question

Post by elutionsdesign »

I would expect each table to have its own live dot.
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kjones6039
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Re: Table switching general question

Post by kjones6039 »

FWIW........ I have only done a couple table switching projects (long time ago) but,IIRC the 'dot' always followed me to the new table.......

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nathaninwa
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Re: Table switching general question

Post by nathaninwa »

I bet it's firmware dependent, but my ms3 stuff has a live ball on each table. One just hangs out in the lower left then the other hangs out in the upper right
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ollykiwi3
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Re: Table switching general question

Post by ollykiwi3 »

Cool.thanks guys
That's what I would have expected.must have screwed up a setting somewhere.
Will have another go.
Cheers
AC COBRA ,302H.O, 33lb inj, 70mm throttle,TFI ign, AFR 165 heads, X303 cam, MS2Extra 3.3.3
kaeman
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Re: Table switching general question

Post by kaeman »

don't forget when using table switching it usually switches from table 1 to table 3 not table 2 or 4.
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dontz125
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Re: Table switching general question

Post by dontz125 »

kaeman wrote:don't forget when using table switching it usually switches from table 1 to table 3 not table 2 or 4.
Point of pedantry - VE generally switches between 1 and 3; spark switches between 1 and 2.
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ollykiwi3
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Re: Table switching general question

Post by ollykiwi3 »

cool. thanks again.yeah i figured that out eventually. took a bit of reading and head scratching but i havent been game to try it out yet.
going to give it a go and have Alpha n for idle, and SD for the rest. just trying to get a smoother idle so figured it was worth a go. will try a restrictor in the vac line first.
may need to get a step by step guide on how to setup switching once i get to it. the manuals are good for generalising, but lack info on actual how to.
AC COBRA ,302H.O, 33lb inj, 70mm throttle,TFI ign, AFR 165 heads, X303 cam, MS2Extra 3.3.3
ollykiwi3
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Re: Table switching general question

Post by ollykiwi3 »

ok, so if someone could give me a run down on how to set table switching up that would be great.

If I use Alpha n for idle, I then setup SD for rest of tune with switchover at 2% throttle(for arguments sake)
I chose primary as AN, secondary as SD.
I have overlayed table 1,2 ,3 but exposed the y axis so you can see the Load term on each.

Table 1 has TPS on Y axis, as expected. Table 2 becomes defunct(according to MS note, and goes to table 3). what I don't get is why table 2 has KPA up Y axis(which is secondary load I need) but that table isn't used, and if so, why then is table 3 Y axis labelled as TPS also?
if im switching from TPS to KPA, shouldn't that table have KPA load on it?
what have I missed or not turned on?
I know I don't use dual tables as I understand that's for different banks of injectors etc.
Capture.JPG
cheers
AC COBRA ,302H.O, 33lb inj, 70mm throttle,TFI ign, AFR 165 heads, X303 cam, MS2Extra 3.3.3
dontz125
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Re: Table switching general question

Post by dontz125 »

Part of the confusion is terminology. Table Switching is between Tables VE1 and VE3; table VE2 is used for Dual Table, and is NOT only used with "different banks of injectors etc." Your primary load is Alpha-N, so the load for VE1 and VE2 is TPS; your secondary load is SD, so the load on VE2 is kPa. Everything is exactly as is should be.
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ollykiwi3
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Re: Table switching general question

Post by ollykiwi3 »

Okay.now I'm more confused.
I understand in table switching it uses ve1and ve3 and that table 2 is ignored.

If you look at the three tables in my screen shot above , the y axis definition for the load is " ve1-TPS%, ve2-fuelload2 KPA, ve3-TPS% "
How can you say ve3 load is KPA when it's stated in black and white its TPS%? And ve2 is KPA but it's ignored anyway so it's no use to me and say everything is as it should be?
Are we looking at 2 different screens here?

If I change my primary load back to SD the ve1 "definition " goes back to KPA as I would expect. So should that not mean if SD is my secondary load that the "description" of the load axis should follow suit?
Is it just a default term that really bares no significance to what it's actually using?

Could you please explain why I'm not seeing what you are?
AC COBRA ,302H.O, 33lb inj, 70mm throttle,TFI ign, AFR 165 heads, X303 cam, MS2Extra 3.3.3
dontz125
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Re: Table switching general question

Post by dontz125 »

Sorry - typo.
Your primary load is Alpha-N, so the load for VE1 and VE2 is TPS; your secondary load is SD, so the load on VE2 is kPa.
That should be, "the load for VE1 and *VE3* is TPS".

Table switching involves VE1 & VE3, and does not involve VE2 - true. However, you have a Secondary Load defined, which DOES involve VE2. Table switching is a complete swap between VE1 & VE3 triggered by the conditions set under [Boost / Advanced] [Table Switching Control]. Dual Table is a combining of VE2 plus either VE1 or VE3 under the conditions specified in [Secondary Load Settings] as you have displayed.
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ollykiwi3
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Re: Table switching general question

Post by ollykiwi3 »

thanks again.
but have i missed the whole concept here then?

If i want to run a blend of Alpha N and SD do i not need to run table switching??
If i want to use TPS as primary for idle(below 2%), and SD for the rest, do i just set up with secondary load as SD and NOT TURN ON TABLE SWITCHING??
If i do need table switching, then how the hell do i use VE2 seeing as it has the load as KPA which is what i need for SD?

So how i understand it now is that table switching is done within the same load sample(ie TPS and TPS) not TPS and SD(or other)
AC COBRA ,302H.O, 33lb inj, 70mm throttle,TFI ign, AFR 165 heads, X303 cam, MS2Extra 3.3.3
ollykiwi3
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Re: Table switching general question

Post by ollykiwi3 »

Ok. I think I have it figured now.
Just using secondary load with no table switching gives me the option to blend ve1and ve2 with KPA as the second load. :yeah!: and AN as the primary load with TPS as the load in y axis.

If I remove secondary load and turn on table switching I get ve1 and ve3 both with the same load( TPS or KPA.)
This means you get two tables for the same load algorithm which gives more definition ( more cells available) to tune with but using the same algorithm.

I guess I didn't understand the terminology or the application of how this works. The manuals could be a little better at explaining this for people with little experience. My dyno tuner asked me about how to get AN and SD so I tried to setup table switching, but it should have just been secondary load instead.

Does that sound right?
AC COBRA ,302H.O, 33lb inj, 70mm throttle,TFI ign, AFR 165 heads, X303 cam, MS2Extra 3.3.3
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