Engine produces almost half of ogrinal power m104 Mercedes

[jack1127]

]Hello dear fellow Megasquirters.
Its been taking me now a long time to get this engine tuned. And i just have a feeling that im doing something totaly not right, thats why im seeking help. There is not very much of people around me that even knows what im talking about when i explain them about this "magic computer"

my name is Jan and i´m from Iceland and i run MS3X version 1.4

Quick engine specs.
Mercedes 3.2 Liter ,6cyl, M104.99x (original fully sequential engine) that Merecedes-benz engineers tuned to whopping 220 horsepower.
All cylinders make 180psi except cyl. #5 that makes 150psi
6 x ls2 truck coils driven by MS3X (4.5 dwell and wasted spark)
6 x 550cc brand new injectors (original were 200cc)
Fuel regulated pressure 50psi, new walbro pump, new fuel lines, new aeromotive fuel filter, Fuel check valve to be fit in later...
Camshaft adjuster kicks in (+10deg) on 2500 rpm and goes out at 5550

First of all i found that i had problems with Map and while being at 50% throttle my map readings would be at 100kpa and the car would just choke and and afr could not be tuned in.
Changed to Aplha-N algorithm... First time got over 5000rpm some progress...
Its on 3 squirts simultaneous right now and i have not tried 6 in aplha-n (i have tried everything in speed-density and car run best on 3 simultaneos)
Tried sequenced batch fire, and i don´t think car run better, the fuel map got pretty funny after that (logs are with batch fire mode on and off)

Advance is flat 42deg starting from 3500 rpm ((engine made once some funny sounds at 45deg (Knock Input 0% at all times))

Did some records with phone dyno, and engine made something ~90hp at ~90km/h and ~5000 rpm (App for Adroid : RaceDroird Pro)

I would appreciate some comment or hint. I´m Just getting a little depressed about all this.

Sincerely yours,

Jan Rolandsson

2015-07-18_00.18.38.msq

2015-07-17_22_modified.msl

2015-07-17_21_modified.msl

[Matt Cramer]

Why are you using secondary additive fuel and ignition tables? This is going to make tuning harder and is likely giving you more advance than what your engine should be using for best power.

[subwoofer]

Large injectors in batch mode isn't likely to help a lot either. Flow rate and dead time measured?
Find the cause of the MAP problem and start over in SD.

[billr]

I didn't look too hard at the logs, as soon as I saw a lot of running with spark timing in the 70-80 degree range, I knew there is something wrong there! If you set MS for 0 degrees "fixed timing" does a strobe light verify that spark is occurring at TDC all through the rpm range? Use a simple light, not a dial-back type.

[old guy]

You have too much dwell for LS1 coils. At 4.3 they will do funny things, Try dropping it to around 2.5 and see if that helps. Also why are you runnig with a flat 42 degree timing. Make sure you have checked timing with a timing light. Set your fixed timing at 10 deg and make sure it lines up with a 10 mark on your front pulley.
After you have done that, rev up the engine and make sure the mark stays at a steady 10 deg.

[subwoofer]

Me too on the "why 42 degrees of timing". Since the engine has variable cam timing it must be a fairly modern design, it would probably like a maximum timing of less than 30 degrees at WOT.

[duxthe1]

A respected tuner once told me a M104 wont make any more power past 20 degrees of timing.

[kaeman]

what is the reason for such large injectors, if the factory ones were only 200, then what changes did you make to the rest of the engine to require the larger injectors. high compression, big turbo, huge camshaft? also like everyone else..... wow that's a lot of timing...... Have you done the injector dead time testing and put correct numbers into the megasquirt controller. why 3 squirts, with large injectors wouldn't one squirt simultaneous, or 2 squirts alternating be better, I would use semi sequential or full sequential if you have the cam sensor installed.

[jack1127]

wow thanks for so many replies!

Why are you using secondary additive fuel and ignition

ok so i did go check with timing light and did not understand why my "spark advance" in tunerstudio was showing 70-90... the secondary fuel and ignition is disabled now thanks! ''that was one of the things what i did not understand''

Large injectors in batch mode isn't likely to help...

fuel injectors dead time and voltage offset dialed in yesterday
the reason why 550cc injectors is that the i want to go turbo sooner or later and old injectors did not look good, so i decided to upgrade...(they are not too big for the engine are they?)

You have too much dwell for LS1 coils. ...

dialed in dwell voltage offset and dwell table, and yes i checked the timing in fixed mode and it held steady up to 4000rpms

funny hah engine produces maximum power at 20degrees WOT and i´m running it at 80 now i understand why it was singing so much trough rpms

im did set now coil on plug ignition and will go start everything from begging will dial in base timing, offset and will go over everything again

thank you very much for replies i will report later today how it went

[jack1127]

why 3 squirts, with large injectors wouldn't one squirt simultaneous, or 2 squirts alternating be better, I would use semi sequential or full sequential if you have the cam sensor installed.

when i was saying it ran better i was judging on how the idle was... it was much stable and more smooth... i know the inlet cam opens 36 ATDC and im not sure about injector timing table...but this means that in tunerstudio setting would be "Angle Specifies: Beginning of Squirt" ?
fuel supposed to be sprayed in just before valve opens and i know im supposed to try it back and forth with the degrees
so lets say 5deg before the opening... so table would be like 391@ 1000, 431@ 2000, 471@ 3000, and 511@ 4000

05-2210.pdf

[jack1127]

car runs in wasted spark mode but when i choose coil on plug or wasted coil on plug, things start to get funny and car runs like on 5 cylinders...
Settings right now : coil on plug and tunerstudio was showing lost sync reason 2 i think this orginal benz trigger wheel and Vr sensor is not working correct...
i did check timing and it was exactly on TDC...
thats it, im ordering trigger wheel from turbobandit...

2015-07-22_16.59.09.csv

2015-07-22_16.50.41.csv

[jsmcortina]

As the car runs in wasted spark, why are you trying those other settings?

Changing those settings also requires that you change your coil wiring.

"Wasted spark" uses three spark outputs for six cylinders.
"Wasted COP" or "coil on plug" uses 6 spark outputs for six cylinders.

James

[jack1127]

ok im using all 6 spark outputs for coils and all (+) goes into one line, and all (-) goes into one line
so i have to use COP configuration and not wasted spark like i was using.. i did not know that...

[jsmcortina]

ok im using all 6 spark outputs for coils and all (+) goes into one line, and all (-) goes into one line
so i have to use COP configuration and not wasted spark like i was using.. i did not know that...

If you were truly running with the wasted spark setting, then that would explain why the engine produced half the power - you were only running on three cylinders ?

James

[jack1127]

Okay, i guess im retarded... my spark outputs and injector outputs were connected wrong way.. it was 1-2-3-4-5-6 but not like firing order.... 1-5-3-6-2-4

That explains why car didn't run in COP mode but in wasted spark and not on 3 cylinders...

Jan

[rhondohslade]

I am also wondering if using injectors which have a 150% greater fuel flow might also be causing issues at speeds above idle.

[jack1127]

no im not having any issues idles pretty smooth 950-940 smooth at all speeds and is 20mpg city and 35 highway (y)