I don't know what I am doing.

[AATopFuel]

OK, I started my car, it did not blow up. I had someone helping but I would like another opinion. This is all new to me so I will concede to any pride here. I tried my msq and I tried one other. I am running rich and my ignition timing is running backwards. What I mean is from ten degrees advanced to thirty degrees retard. It's got to be something stupid that I must have done wrong. My starting it is fine I had my son start it so I could watch the timing and he scared me pretty good, he's not a car guy. He took it up to about five grand and I got my info but I was white as a sheet. The timing light turned off like it should when he let of the gas peddle, at two thousand RPM's the timing light turned back on as it should. The timing though went the wrong way and it went into crap mode once you let off of the key and it is in run, not start. the injectors were at 24-22 and with a friends shot at it, it went down to 20-18. When the engine would warm up some it would go down to like 16-14 on the indicator. It does not like going over five to six hundred RPM's when in run mode and I have to give it twenty five percent or more on the TPS to keep it running. What do you think?

Tuner Studio MS Lite V2.6.19
81 Ford Mustang
2.3L Engine Block
84 T-Bird 2.3T Head
87 Mustang 2.3L Intake Manifold spun ninety degrees facing forward for the intercooler.
Custom Built Header
.67AR Turbo
Iskenderian Cam 465
Lobe Center 116
Valve lift .465"
Duration 240 degrees @ .050"
Overlap 68 degrees
MSD External fuel Pump #2225
Aftermarket Fuel Injectors 42# 12.5 Ohm's
43 Pounds of Fuel Pressure
Stock Ford Fuel Rail
5/16" Fuel Line
1/4" Return Line
MSD Cam Sensor
GM IAT
Ford Coolant Sensor
EBC Kit
LM-2 with W/B Sensor
Ford TFI Distributor Locked Rotor
MegaSquirt-III EMS System with MS3X Expansion V3.57 Assembled (MS3X357-C_BL)
Full Sequential Fuel

Thank you for your time,

JBL

[grom_e30]

did you take any data logs of it?

[AATopFuel]

Yes I did but they are to big to put on this page. They are like 2000 and 2900, I'm only allowed 1000. I'll try again later today.

JBL

[grom_e30]

you can compress them in to a zip file to make them smaller to post up

[billr]

"the injectors were at 24-22 and with a friends shot at it, it went down to 20-18. When the engine would warm up some it would go down to like 16-14 on the indicator."

That confused me, kind of mixing injector timing in with spark timing. Set the spark control from "table" to "fixed" for now, I suggest about 10 for the "fixed"; let's get one variable out of the puzzle for now. Is your ignition timing-light a dial-back, or a simple one? I also suggest using a simple one, they seem to be more reliable and less prone to "operator error". I am unfamiliar with the TFI/PIP stuff, but getting a consistent timing reference is fundamental to any system, let's focus on getting that locked-down. You don't even have to start the engine at the beginning of this process, ensuring cranking timing is correct is the first step.

[AATopFuel]

Here is some Data logs I hope this helps.

JBL

[AATopFuel]

"the injectors were at 24-22 and with a friends shot at it, it went down to 20-18. When the engine would warm up some it would go down to like 16-14 on the indicator."

That confused me, kind of mixing injector timing in with spark timing. Set the spark control from "table" to "fixed" for now, I suggest about 10 for the "fixed"; let's get one variable out of the puzzle for now. Is your ignition timing-light a dial-back, or a simple one? I also suggest using a simple one, they seem to be more reliable and less prone to "operator error". I am unfamiliar with the TFI/PIP stuff, but getting a consistent timing reference is fundamental to any system, let's focus on getting that locked-down. You don't even have to start the engine at the beginning of this process, ensuring cranking timing is correct is the first step.

Yes I only use the simple design. I will set it to fixed and see. Thanks,
JBL

[billr]

Still... what's with the mention of "injectors", was that a typo, are we just fussing with spark timing here?

[AATopFuel]

Another Data file.

[AATopFuel]

Still... what's with the mention of "injectors", was that a typo, are we just fussing with spark timing here?

I'm just trying to get it running the fuel ratio is 7.5 to 1 and the timing runs backwards. Thanks,
JBL

[grom_e30]

was the engine actually running in the logs? at about 600rpm as the ecu thinks the engine is still cranking so its using the cranking settings, if it was running try setting the cranking rpm to something like 300rpm so the ecu knows the engine is running and not cranking.

[kjones6039]

at about 600rpm as the ecu thinks the engine is still cranking so its using the cranking settings

Yep! According to the msq he posted, cranking rpm is set to 800! Definitely too high!


Ken

[AATopFuel]

OK, I changed the Cranking RPM to three hundred RPM's, I also changed the timing to fixed and I must say it made a difference. I still can't get it to RPM, about five hundred is about it. If I play with the throttle around ten percent, I go from rich to lean instantly. So I am 7.5 to 22.5 in a blink of an eye. I am leaving some more data if you want to look at it. I did learn that the rectangle boxes at the bottom of the screen are green when being used and if they are red that's a problem, if they are white they are unused, I think that is correct.
Thanks for your time,

JBL

[grom_e30]

well now the ecu knows the engine is running so thats progress, have you used a timing light to confirm the spark is happening at 10btdc now?

[racerron]

I see you running staged injection. I sure there is nothing wrong there. I guess I said it for conversation .

[kjones6039]

I'm not going to be much help here 'cause I don't know boo about MS3, but one thing did jump out at me. Are you certain that your wideband is calibrated correctly? An improperly or uncalibrated wideband sensor can certainly account for those wild variations in AFR that I see in your log.

Ken

[billr]

Have you tried using the correct "req_fuel" value? That would be 8.8msec with gasoline, 9.1msec with the E10 commonly available. Have these injectors been flowed for rate and dead-time with your pressure and drivers? Since you are just getting started here, now is the time to determine the correct values for those. It might save you a lot of time and frustration in the long-run.

[racerron]

yes try calibrating your O2 sensor. you have a LM2. put the EGO sensor on innovative LC1/LC2

[AATopFuel]

Well, I did my best today and it went kind of like this. Everything above I fixed and ran the car and it ran just as bad. I then started poking around tried different drivers like semi sequential and batch no change. So I pulled out some stuff to see what's going on inside. First my pulled out my vacuum gauge and my vacuum reading was three inches and I then grabbed a can of carb cleaner for vacuum leaks none present. I then pulled all the spark plugs out and all four were at 145lbs so that's not it. I then pulled my timing cover for the belt and it is perfectly in time. I pulled the valve cover for anything, nothing, all is well there, no adjustments needed. So I put the valve cover back on it, but left off the turbo tube, the timing cover, and the fan belts. I started the engine and it ran perfect the fuel load meter was down from a hundred percent the vacuum was up to 15 inches everything was working. I could rev it up or what ever I wanted to do. I put the tube for the turbo back on and the timing cover for the cam sensor. I started the engine it kept running I put the air cleaner on and it kept running. Then after one minute of run time it went back to running bad again. The vacuum went back down to three inches fuel load was back up to one hundred percent. So I pulled the tube off again no change I pulled the cam sensor no change, I pulled the exhaust system off no change. Then I pulled the the distributor cap off looking for any form of a crack or electrical lines that would prove jumping from the coil to the plugs or plug to plug, nothing. What gets me was that I did nothing, it just started to work, then it quit. I opened up the Three D fuel map while running thinking that it couldn't hurt. It shows a little blue dot but instead of being down in the pocket it was up at the top, the one hundred bar, where I would have to be flooring it to get that. I also noticed that my timing mark was moving around in the fixed mode. I could really use some good thoughts on this, I'm at a loss. Thanks for your time.

[jsmcortina]

Attach the datalog of that test run and your current tune.

James