Cant rev past 6k RPM.need help

[gruff511]

okay so this is on a 420a motor im running ms3x 8.8:1 compression built motor, running COP using D585 coils on e85 5 speed manual transmission. when i floor it the RPMs climb steady and fast like normal but once i hit 6000 rpm it stays around there. But sometimes depending on what gear im in it may get up to 6500rpm so lets just say rpm's stay between 6000-7000rpm but its hard for it to get to 7000rpm. Even if i set my rev limiter higher then 7000 it wont make it to the rev limit. I can keep my foot on the throttle and it stays in the 6000 rpm range.
I thought it was a mechanical issue so i changed the coils and spark plugs and played with the dwell time on the coils but still no change.
Can someone take a look at my MSQ. possibly and see if its something in the tune?
This has been going on for a while now and cant figure it out...
i posted 2 datalogs of a couple pulls and you will see rpms start to flatten out at 6000 rpms

[elutionsdesign]

30 psi boost is a lot of cylinder pressure, if it were me I'd try it without any boost to see if it would rev higher.

[gruff511]

Yup still does it on every boost level. I had it on 8psi 14psi 17psi 20psi 23pai 25pai 28psi 30psi..same thing happens

[kaeman]

It might be that you don't have enough timing to get past the 6000 rpm mark, I ran into a situation where I only had about 28 degrees timing and the engine hit 6000 and just layed down and fell asleep, one of my buddies told me to increase my timing, I am now at 36 total and the engine runs right past 8000.... no problem. went back to 28 and 6000 was it. I am not running boost, but it might be worth adding a couple degrees and see what happens.
GOOD Luck

[gruff511]

Thanks for the advice..ill try that and get a datalog.i was thinking of changing timing but seeing how this has happened on all different boost levels i thought it wouldve been something else..ill try it rhough

[elutionsdesign]

It could be related to your MAT correction, what on earth happened there? I'd put it back to the ideal gas law unless you have good reason not to, knowing air density is important.

[gruff511]

It could be related to your MAT correction, what on earth happened there? I'd put it back to the ideal gas law unless you have good reason not to, knowing air density is important.

Are you talking about in the log? The air correction? Or in the msq. Tune itself? Its set at 100 for that air temp in the log..doesnt 100 mean there is no correction and its going off of the ideal gas law?

[gruff511]

It might be that you don't have enough timing to get past the 6000 rpm mark, I ran into a situation where I only had about 28 degrees timing and the engine hit 6000 and just layed down and fell asleep, one of my buddies told me to increase my timing, I am now at 36 total and the engine runs right past 8000.... no problem. went back to 28 and 6000 was it. I am not running boost, but it might be worth adding a couple degrees and see what happens.
GOOD Luck

Okay so i just increased timing and its still doing this..its pulling harder now while in boost but it still stays in the mid 6000rpm range i cant get to 7000rpm or higher. I got a log i need to trim and upload it

[billr]

The MAT correction is set in TS. No, 100% no longer means "no correction". The default curve that goes from about 125% cold to 75% hot is now the "no correction" to ideal gas laws.

[gruff511]

Okay after researching other threads of people with the same issue is me. They all said they had to increase dwell time on their coils. I increased my dwell time a little but im not sure how much is okay to increase them to. Im running the ls truck coils the d585 and i heard if there is too much dwell then they will prematurely fire causing uncontrollable spark.
So does anyone have experience with these coils and how much dwell time is needed for them for boost?

[gruff511]

The MAT correction is set in TS. No, 100% no longer means "no correction". The default curve that goes from about 125% cold to 75% hot is now the "no correction" to ideal gas laws.

Well on mine if i change it from anything other then 100 then it will change everything..all my AFRs will be off and the it will be way too rich at cold and way too lean when hot

[jsmcortina]

Are you using an old firmware for any particular reason? 1.2.x was superceded in 2014.

As others have said, your air density table is totally screwed up.

James

[gruff511]

Are you using an old firmware for any particular reason? 1.2.x was superceded in 2014.

As others have said, your air density table is totally screwed up.

James

I believe it is 1.3 ill double check when i get home. Ill update the firmware. When i update it to 1.4 am i going to have to change settings in the msq. Or just update it and thats it?

Also i tried to set coil dwell time per rpm but when doing so the car wouldnt start when i activated that feature.

[gruff511]

So i did have the older 1.2 firmware and i updated it to the latest 1.4 firmware as posted on this site.

And just what i was afraid of it changed everything and now some things arent working.
My air density table didnt change but now i have no idle control, im running closed loop stepper motor and when i change the steps it doesnt do anything. It idles at around 1500rpm now! If i change the steps it seems like its losing steps and it begins to idle higher and higher it was just idling at 2200rpm

Is there something i did wrong? All i did was update the firmware..was i supposed to change something else?

Kinda pissed because now i cant reload the 1.2 firmware back and i cant even drive the car now and it is my daily driver so i need to get this thing back on point ASAP

The car was runninf great in the previous firmware hence why i never upgraded to 1.4

[gruff511]

also when its running tunerstudios says "no rev limit" and "not synced" how could it not be synced if everything is running?
also i keep getting a popup saying there are errors about 86 i think it was

is there any way i can just put back 1.2 firmware?

[slow_hemi6]

IN your firmware file you downloaded there will be a text file called RELEASE NOTES just read that and it will tell you what to do.

[gruff511]

IN your firmware file you downloaded there will be a text file called RELEASE NOTES just read that and it will tell you what to do.

I did I followed everything per those instructions

[slow_hemi6]

If you want to go back then 1.2 should be in the archive if you don't have it http://www.msextra.com/downloads/archive/ms3/

[gruff511]

Cool thanks.im going to try that.
I dont know why im getting no idle control with this 1.4 firmware. and so many error codes
And in TS is constantly says not synced and no rev limit, if i give it gas and let off idle wont drop below 2000rpm it will hover around there.

[gruff511]

okay so i found the 1.2.1 firmware on my old laptop and loaded it back and everything is running normal again(thank god lol)
So i tried my old laptop to load 1.4 firmware back to the MS3 and i still get the same issue. idle control basically has no effect,cant get it to idle normal at all, it keeps saying 'not synced' in tunerstudios and it keeps saying 'no rev limit' what ever that means. and i keep getting 86 error codes. i tired multiple computers to load the 1.4 firmware like stated in the instructions and still getting 86 error codes.

So back to my main issue...I see no reason why the firmware would prevent me from being able to rev out to 7,000rpm. is anybody able to chime in on this matter? any other recommendations are welcome